I wouldn’t have thought of this simile. It definitely calls for some Photoshop fun. Anybody?

If the comparison is about superficial-ish things that have little (or no) eternal value (such as physical fitness or eloquence in public speech), then the quote is one I could get behind.

However, if the pastoral comparison is one of “weightier matters,” then a pastor ought to want his people to have the discernment necessary to see the strengths other men have which he lacks (in whole or in part). A pastor offended by such a comparison could be said to lack humility, if nothing else.

Shannon wrote @ April 8, 2008 at 1:30 pm

I’m not sure I agree with this quote either. It doesn’t seem flattering in either direction. Are we saying that our well-known preachers aren’t really what is being presented to us or are we saying that “unknown” pastors are THAT lacking.

As an at-home mom, I am often told that my call of motherhood to my children is the greatest call, or at least extremely valuable. I can only assume that is because of the responsibility and influence I have in ALL areas of my children’s lives. I would say the same is true of a pastor leading a “small” congregation. He is responsible for ALL areas of shepherding, not just preaching or counseling, etc.

While I am very grateful for God’s call on our “well-known” pastors and their faithfulness to write books, offer conferences, etc. I am inclined to say that the “unknown” pastor’s call is grossly underrated.

lionelwoods7 wrote @ April 8, 2008 at 5:09 pm

Hello Shannon and Travis,

I am saying neither. What I was attempting to convey was that Piper just as Mahaney, Sproul, Lloyd Jones, Reyken, Duncan, MacArthur and Dever are men annointed with a special ministry that seems to be more Apostolic than most pastors and teachers. As Paul says “woe to me if I don’t preach”.

If people would had left and went to their local home churches and expected their elders to preach just as Paul preached in Acts 20 (when the young man fell out of the window) they would have been measuring their local elders unfairly. What I am saying is to compare the giftedness of these men who write books that will be used in seminaries, pastor churches that now need satellites to accomodate them, who have national speaking engagements and a little missionary in India are reading his works, would be unfair.

These men, according to their giftedness, may never have the charisma of Piper, the philosophical mind of Sproul, the practical heart changing and heart engaging style of Mahaney, the almost immortal fame of Spurgeon, but they may be the most faithful man a small town may ever know.

So I wasn’t comapring anyone to being flakey or superficial, I wasn’t even comparing any of these men to a super model (it is funny that this can even be interpreted in such a way given the context) I was more concerned with individual church goers who expect the same giftedness from every man who walks into a pulpit and shepherds a local congregation.

What these national men have is a gift to be leaders of leaders. They are the Paul and Peters of our day. They will be rewarded to the faithfulness of this task just as the local pastor who has a huge obligation shepherding the 100 or 200 or 300 that God has given him. This wasn’t about shepherding faithfully this was about “MEASURING BIBLICALLY”. This was more a conviction of my own of expecting Spurgeon/Piper like sermons Sunday after Sunday while at the same time missing the giftedness and the dedication of my local shepherd. So this was more about me than it was others.

Abraham Piper wrote @ April 8, 2008 at 8:59 pm

Lionel, thanks for your comment. Well-said.

Also, thanks for letting me take your comparison completely out of context and have some fun with it.

lionelwoods7 wrote @ April 9, 2008 at 8:14 am

Anytime brother. Thanks for the plug.

GUNNY HARTMAN wrote @ April 21, 2008 at 9:08 pm

Lionel!

I would add this to Lionel’s elucidation, with perhaps another analogy.

What could a person compare in Lionel’s scenario? It would have to be sermon vs. sermon, right?

Now … the analogy …

Sometimes it’s noted that husband’s can be tempted when they see the single no-responsibility having young lady in the work place and compare (merely) her physical appearance with that of his wife.

However, the unfair aspect, as noted by Lionel, is that the former has the opportunity to spend much time, money, and energy on her physical appearance (e.g., clothes, gym, primping, etc.).

His wife, however, when he comes home has been chasing toddlers around all day and taking care of his house, etc.

Many people have pastors who are taking out the trash, unclogging toilets, printing bulletins, etc. Being saddled with so many other responsibilities necessarily means less time, energy, and money can be spent working on Sunday’s sermon.

Conversely, some of the more famous preachers have research assistants and are blessed to be able to spend much more time (and perhaps money on commentaries) working on their Sunday sermon.

But, yes, I think there is also the raw talent/gifting angle as well that pastors have to try not to envy. It’s good to attempt to emulate certain aspects, but I shouldn’t try to be Sproul, or the Pipe, or Johnny Mac.

To do so would be ill-advised AND ludicrous as I’m such a spare in comparison.

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