Apr 15, 2008
Bar etiquette at Christian conferences: Let's make Wednesday their biggest night.
When Christians at conferences overwhelm a bar/restaurant it’s an opportunity to blow minds with Christ-centered generosity.
Tip high and buy drinks.
Subscribe to 22 Words
Recent Comments
- Will on How to become a wine expert and other advice for inexperienced wine lovers
- Stephen May on It’s not a slide, it’s a proto-steampunk ghetto park bench for one.
- Stephen May on Who or whom? A clear, simple answer from a professional grammarian
- Stephen May on Elitists in Minnesota town Lino Lakes approve English-only resolution
- Will Adair on How to become a wine expert and other advice for inexperienced wine lovers
Sponsors
Categories
- Arts in General (24)
- Bible (66)
- Blogging (153)
- Brevity (25)
- Constructive Criticism (268)
- Faith (210)
- Food & Drink (54)
- Language (214)
- Literature (104)
- Love (86)
- Miscellanea (286)
- Movies (14)
- Music (155)
- parenting (153)
- Personal (182)
- Questions (255)
- Quotes (41)
- Recommendations (129)
- Sports (8)
- Uncategorized (8)
- Visual Art (27)
- Writing (56)
Archives
- July 2010 (107)
- June 2010 (79)
- May 2010 (89)
- April 2010 (62)
- March 2010 (21)
- February 2010 (25)
- January 2010 (32)
- December 2009 (47)
- November 2009 (63)
- October 2009 (45)
- September 2009 (40)
- August 2009 (40)
- July 2009 (40)
- June 2009 (37)
- May 2009 (47)
- April 2009 (51)
- March 2009 (40)
- February 2009 (31)
- January 2009 (44)
- December 2008 (47)
- November 2008 (54)
- October 2008 (50)
- September 2008 (41)
- August 2008 (45)
- July 2008 (51)
- June 2008 (51)
- May 2008 (66)
- April 2008 (74)
- March 2008 (71)
- February 2008 (19)
Reader Recommendations
Some of the books and music that you, the readers, have recommended here over time:
Twitter Recommendations
Theme based on Derek Punsalan's Grid Focus.
That is awesome!!!!!!!
A friend of mine once said: “There are two things that open up conversations: cigarettes and alcohol.” I must say that, among the many conversations shared with my coworkers and Christian friends, the best ones were shared over a smooth Guiness.
Here’s to you.
Wow! If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were in the PCA. You aren’t, right? *grin*
Well I agree with half of your equation..
Love it!!!! A long time ago I was a waitress. I had a table of 20 from a local church. They obviously had just had a revival or consortioum. Needless to say they worked me rather hard. My tip .. bible tracts. Can’t say I was feeling Christ’s love that day.
Somehow God still drew me near to his heart despite that experience.
God bless you and your family. :)
I have known several waitresses over the years and I can’t tell you how many of them have complained of not only getting Bible tract “tips” but of getting them that LOOK like a ten-dollar bill or something even more insulting!
I am sure that the Christian guy that leaves a tract like that thinks, “Hey! this will make her look; and the message is better than a tip!”. He likely thinks this in all sincerity.
A guy I listen to on the radio says, “The Gospel is offensive enough on its own; no need to add any to it!”
A question to hopefully provoke some thoughtful conversation: Tipping high is certainly counter-cultural in a reportedly tight economic era, but how is buying drinks coming “out from among them?” I’m not questioning Christian liberty here. I am just curious. How does the purchase of drinks promote the Gospel in the same way high tipping shows Biblical generosity?
An older Christian woman I know once told me, “God only gets ten percent, why should a server get more?” I know that she, as well as many other people, usually only leave about five percent. Oh, how the (what I think is) righteous anger burned within me when I heard that!
Kevin, not sure if Abraham was necessarily referring to alcoholic drinks or not (doesn’t matter to me), but buying any drink other than just a water adds to the bill and therefore to the tip.
btw…I’ve never been here in Louisville before so if someone could direct me to a good ale within walking distance to the Gault House I promise I promise I will tipe well.
I take it this isn’t the SBC?
;)
Cheers!
Oh, your mother would be so proud, Abraham.
Kevin, I think that drinking responsibly and enjoyably while wearing a Christian conference name badge can be a subtle, but striking way to tear down barriers that stand between some people and the gospel.
This can work both ways. To the cynic who thinks Christians use Jesus as a license to live like the devil will undoubtedly stick this observance in their arsenal. I certainly would have back in my cynical days. You may inadvertently harden as many as you soften. But as long as you know that, you can probably pull this off on the positive end.
I would agree that this is a good idea, however my fear is that it might look like believers are just a bunch of rich people buying drinks if there is not much interaction between you and the waiter. Even further, I would hope that since you are there to be “together for the gospel” that they would see the gospel before the tip be given. Conclusion: know the people before assuming that anyone respects someone who gives a high tip.
Back in my McDonalds days (shudder) I used to dread working on Sundays because of having to deal with all the church people.
On the other side of the spectrum, I remember one day when a group of kids from a nearby Bible institute came in and left such a great testimony that I felt compelled to let the leadership of the institute know.
[...] gotta love this 22 word post from Abraham on bar etiquette at T4G. Refreshingly surprising and very true. I hope that Louisville [...]
Wonderful advice, Abraham. May Louisville servers be pleasantly surprised today by happy, friendly, self-controlled and generous Christians. Make mine a Guinness!
It’s simple…you buy drinks because they add a couple bucks to the bill, increasing the tip. I wonder if all those poor-tipping Christians don’t realize that servers only make a few bucks an hour, or if they just don’t give a crap.
I had a friend i was witnessing to who had horrible experiences with big groups after church would let out. They would tip those tracks that looked like money. How sad. In my experience in the service industry i found that gay men tipped the best and big church groups the least.
I worked for three years as a waiter/bartender and all the non-Christians I worked with HATED the church crowd. Inevitably, a troupe of about 20-30 would come in 20 minutes before close unannounced, all order water, split the meals and complain about the music.
It took a lot of undoing to be any kind of effective witness. Usually over a beer after work *wink*.
If you are a person who every enjoyed or still enjoys having a “drink”, you will say it is a way to break down a barrier with an unbeliever.
If that is not something you have ever done or care to do, you will say that it sets a bad example.
Personally, I have had several “spiritual” discussions while having a drink, but only with people that know me very well, never with strangers.
As far as tipping…it isn’t our money anyway, right? Throw a little extra at the person serving you…drinks or no drinks…
The Brits are taking over the bridge bar at the Galt House tonight. I hope we take your advice. Come meet us there!!
This makes me sad to read… some of the guys I grew up with could “handle” having a couple drinks, but their poor younger brothers who were learning that it was cool to drink (wow- and you can still be a Christian!) couldn’t handle it and paid a high price with how they spent their young adult years. I wish that the older guys would have been thinking of the younger guys that were looking up to them instead of trying to just appear “normal”. It was a real stumbling block that is still having an effect on my church today.
Otherwise, since I used to be a server in MY younger days- a big tip without having a big bill really impressed me- so you can make an impression without even having the chance of being a stumbling block!
Sorry to be a downer, it just makes me sad to think of what affect this advice could have on the “weaker vessel” type people….
Melanie,
I certainly understand the feeling behind your post. However, allow me to bring my own anecdote to the discussion. Drinking has never been a big part of my life. I have never been drunk and I have never seen my father drunk. Still, he and I would hang out at the pub. For some reason it was his comfortable place. It was there that we would talk about serious stuff. Then I came to Christ as a young adult and soon was part of a church that frowned on drinking. To them there was no such thing as moderate drinking. A drop was a sin. The weaker brother argument was brought out constantly. So I stopped going to the pub, I stopped hanging out with my dad. Once he wanted to talk about my new faith… at the pub. I wouldn’t go. What did he learn from that? That Christians are uptight killjoys. I don’t recall having a good conversation with him between then and when he died. I’d just love to have a beer with him now
I’m sorry about your friends, really I am. But culturally enforced “Christian” abstinence is not a solution to anything. It would have been so much better for the older guys to teach the younger ones to enjoy God’s good gifts in godly moderation, no?
22 Words from Psalm 104
Praise the LORD…
He brings brings forth food from the earth:
wine that gladdens the heart of man… bread that sustains his heart.
How many of you have steins (like Luther was purported to have) marked off where your tolerance level is? I can drink here and not be drunk, but no further… ;)
Hey Abraham, I don’t necessarily have a problem with drinking, but I’m not sure if I would personally have put a post like that on my blog. Just my thought.
Richard,
Thanks for your kind and gentle answer :) I guess everyone’s experiences will lead them to different conclusion, but you are one up on me since you have a Bible verse :) :)
My thought… the older guys, instead of teaching the younger ones how to drink responsibly, could help them come up with witty and disarming reasons why they are ordering a coke while their coworkers are drinking alcohol. :) C’mon, there are plenty of non-Christians who don’t drink because they realize that would be playing with fire. And people don’t think worse of them for it- this is the case in my husband’s workplace as well as others I know. You can subtly tear down barriers just as well with a coke in your glass as with a beer. For us as Christians, all things are lawful, just not all things are profitable. Why in the world risk it? I just don’t get the appeal.
Just an aside- I really like how John Piper and Mark Driscoll played this out at the Resurgence conference during the Q & A. Basically, JP was asked what in the world he was doing investing time with someone as different as MD- he said the first time he came out to visit MD, he took him to a “saloon”- MD choked out, “A SALOON??” – JP said,”Well, some kind of brewery…” I was ROTFL so hard- it was so refreshing to see such Christian love and maturity in the midst of differing opinions.
Melanie,
Thanks for your reply. Most of the time I do order a Coke (though a Guinness is, healthwise, way better for me). Your point is surely true that one can be as much a witness with a Coke as with a beer. I would simply say that the godly person with a beer is no less a witness. Agreed?
Thanks for sharing the Piper/Driscoll anecdote. I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the “saloon”. LOL
As far as having a verse I’m reminded of Driscoll’s wit when he said (in a sermon) “I used to be a teetotaler but then I read the Bible, got convicted, and I had to repent of that” :-D (Tongue, firmly in cheek, I’m sure).
As far as having a verse I’m reminded of Driscoll’s wit when he said (in a sermon) “I used to be a teetotaler but then I read the Bible, got convicted, and I had to repent of that” (Tongue, firmly in cheek, I’m sure).
Too funny.
Still looking for the answer to the question: How does drinking a beer (tasty as it may be) promote the Gospel?
Again, I’m not questioning the liberty to imbibe, just should it be touted as a witness to the Gospel? If so, how?
Wish I had the gift of brevity like Abraham…
Kevin,
Allow me to attempt a 22 word answer.
Many mistakenly think that Christianity is ascetic. Enjoying a beer in their company begins to break that stereotype. An obstacle is removed.
i’m joining in the discussion about ordering drinks (alcoholic or not), to up the bill and therefore the tip.
wouldn’t a big tip on a low bill be more suprising (or a greater witness) for a server than a 15% tip on a bigger bill?
my husband and i like to order just water, and then we can afford to throw in a few extra dollars, because we would’ve spent that $3-$4 on those 2 cokes. $4 added to our bill for 2 cokes would be only 60 cents extra for the server’s tip.
this is just our opinion, but we believe a modest meal–sharing, or just ordering waters, with a big tip says a lot. we’re conservative with our finances, modest, whatever….but (and SO THAT we can be) generous in our giving and blessing of others.
I think that I need a beer now
[...] I like the way this guy thinks. [...]
A little late but:
There is a time and a place for almost everything. I believe that God grants us the wisdom to know what the appropriate times, circumstances and places for having a beer/wine/whatever are.
BTW, Guinness not only delicious, it also has low alcohol content so you can have a couple!
I think that as a Christian, you are being more of a stumbling block with a self-righteousness attitude of never drinking around unbelievers that do, than you would be if you had just ordered that drink.
Shannon,
I can’t help feeling that you are a bit hasty with your judgement of motive there. Some I’m confident, abstain out of the self-righteousness you dislike. But others, abstain, because they have simply taken too much responsibility upon their own shoulders. An over-concern with not drinking, as one facet of a sanctified life.
I’m just suggesting that sometimes the intention is not self-righteousness, sometimes its something healthy, out of proportion and balance.
I need another beer now.
I am sorry if I came across as self-righteous; I tried to word everything as non-judgmental as possible. I certainly don’t judge other Christians who drink, just wish it wouldn’t have certain negative effects… and thought I would say another point of view that actually a lot of very humble Christians have- I believe the view is valid. I really am in awe that I am in such a minority here!
Wow- I have never been described as self-righteous! I am trying not to get hurt feelings ;) -I never really comment on blogs; I guess I don’t have thick enough skin :)
Bowing out- thanks for an interesting conversation!
Melanie,
To be honest. I didn’t think you were being self-righteous. And I think that what Shannon said, was more general and wasn’t actually pointed at you at all. It seemed to me that Shannon was in danger of being offensive, but that she made a pretty good point about breaking down perceptions. You seemed to me to be saying that you didn’t see the point in drinking because it was playing with fire. It just struck me that you were a bit fearful of booze – I’m sure you have your reasons. My grandfather was an alcoholic, and I know a few alcoholics. For, them, there is good reason to see drinking as playing with fire – most of them can’t even have booze in dessert – let alone a drink.
I would just say that you’re a little over cautious, if you think that drinking is playing with fire for everyone. I have my two drink limit, and that’s where I stop. Without boundaries / limits, perhaps it would be playing with fire, but I still think that is a little too fearful and over the top.
These are just opinions. We don’t really know anything about each other, and it would be slightly crazy to take anything than a stranger says about you, on the basis of such flimsy knowledge of you, with much gravitas. Don’t sweat it. Keep commenting.
Richard,
You said:
Many mistakenly think that Christianity is ascetic. Enjoying a beer in their company begins to break that stereotype. An obstacle is removed.
I bow to your superior skills of brevity, brother.
Nevertheless, I remember a statement: what you save them with, you save them to.
How many have had a lost person come up to them and say, “You know, I’ve always thought Christians were a bunch of killjoys. But now, I see you drink just like I do. Tell me about this Jesus”?
As I said before, I am not questioning Christian liberty to drink alcohol. If God has granted you the freedom to do so with a clear conscience, that’s great. God bless and enjoy the fruits of your labor to the glory of God.
My question was related to the point that a Christian drinking among unbelievers promotes the Gospel.
I didn’t mean to be offensive, just pointing something out. I am not going to get upset at anyone Christian who chooses to have a drink or to not have a drink. I think that it is important to think about your motive before you make any decision. It is very easy to have a self-righteous attitude when dealing with such devisive issues like drinking.
I think the main problem with any issue, is that everything that was made good by God has been effected by the fall of man. Drinking in itself is not sinful…yet drunkenness is. Sex in the confines of marriage is not sinful…yet adultery and lust is. Eating is not sinful…yet being a glutton is.
Does this mean that we stop all things that might cause someone else to sin because it might be a stumbling block to them? That would be a pretty long list because everything that is good can become sinful. We all have our stumbling blocks.
Kevin,
Abraham is the one with the gift of brevity. I’m but a poor imitator.
You don’t save them with beer (fie on that idea!). Only God can do that through the Gospel. Though I wonder if Jesus didn’t promote the Gospel and win people at the wedding in Cana. “He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.”, it says – the first instance of the word faith and on anyone putting faith in Jesus in John’s gospel (John 2:11).
Melanie,
You certainly never came across as self-righteous to me. Bless you, sister.
Richard,
Granted, if I walked into a bar that’s out of booze and took the tap water and turned it into serious hooch that would be a clear indication of unearthly power and maybe grab the attention of people so I could point them toward Christ. :)
I am pretty confident that that is not what we’re talking about here. :D
Nevertheless, the overarching theme of Abraham’s post was to not be a putz to waiters by failing to leave a less than generous tip. With that, I agree completely.
Amen, Kevin!
22 Words
I bow out. Thanks, all, for the good conversation. It couldn’t have been better even with a pint at the King’s Arms. ;-)
You may have saved my relationship with BBC with this post Abraham, for which, thanks!
Bar etiquette at a bar: Drink for God’s sake and glorify Him while you’re at it.
Or, in a slightly different context, as Martin Luther murmured while in his cups, “after a hard day, there is nothing quite like siting by the fire and driking a good German beer then going to bed and making love to your wife, all to the glory of God.”
St. Paul would undoubtedly concur, though, modifying “German” to “Jewish” and “beer” to “wine”.
[...] the end of his telling me this story he mentioned Abraham Piper’s interesting post during T4G about this topic that I had not [...]
As a waitress, I agree 100%. What a great way to show the generosity of Christ! (And a little note on the bill saying “God bless” or something to that effect would go a long way, I’m sure)
listen to your Dad’s sermon on Colossians about ‘pea-shooter’ regulations when, I’m assuming from the content, you were changing your constitution to take out the clause about drinking.
a quote that I cannot quote exactly but, “10,000 more people will be in hell because of leagalism than drinking alcohol”.
My family and I order water quite often, not because we’re cheap but because we like it. I never really thought about how it lowers the bill and therefore the amount of the tip I calculate. Got me thinking… maybe I should add a little more for the water we got for free.
That was an awesome conversation. Thanks!
Man, cultural differences can be quite striking and overwhelming. In my culture – south India- drinking especially among Christian people is seen as going against practicing what you preach. One of the reasons is the kind of disasters and abuse families face as a result of drinkers. therefore a question of even responsible drinking doesn’t come up, since, it’s still an encouragement to drink. the slogan, alcohol is poison is often heard among christian circles and in rallies. I don’t know how it is in this authors place.
Very interesting conversation. I’m joining in a bit late ;)
I like what George has to say about cultural differences. My parents were missionaries for ten years in Spain, and then moved to Central America and have been there 15 years. In Spain they drank, as did the other believers in the churches in that area, because it was culturally acceptable to do so and stumbled no one. Since they moved to Honduras, and later to Nicaragua, neither of my parents have drunk alcohol except wine during the Lord’s supper. This is because, culturally, drinking is associated with being drunk, not with aesthetic enjoyment, and they want to set an example, particularly for those brothers and sisters who have left behind a drunken lifestyle. All this while allowing my sisters and I, who live in California, to drink (as long as we don’t, as someone mentioned earlier, cause younger kids to drink irresponsibly!). I respect my parents’ ability to mold their lives to the Scripture, in that more minor area, and other major ones as well.
here’s what i do…
take the bill, divide by 10, double it, add a buck.
the difference between a decent tip and a great one is usually only a buck or two. a little to me, a big impression on my server.
if you’re not going to tip well, please don’t pray before your meal!
i have a friend who always waits for the server to come and ‘check’ on things right after the food is delivered. she’ll say, “we’re going to pray for our meal. is there anything you’d like for us to pray about for you?” i’ve seen this lots of times, and the server will stop and pray with us, or just vomit something awful going on their life to someone willing to listen. only 1x has someone said, ‘no.’ pretty cool. (and i’m glad my friend does it – i’m too chicken!
Tagging at the end here…having worked in aerospace manufacturing years ago…I will say that I got heartily tired of being challenged to prove I wasn’t a “legalistic killjoy Christian” by drinking a little, swearing a little, smoking a little, gambling a little, rebelling a little, sleeping around a little….
There’s no way that even one drink is a good thing if the motive is to prove that we’re not legalistic. That’s playing with fire, I think.
As a believer whose life is redeemed, I am not obligated to demonstrate that I am “just like” one who is not redeemed. Are there areas other than drinking where you would apply a similar perspective?
Last line should have said “are there GRAY than other drinking where you would apply a similar perspective?”
Actually, the last line should have said!:(…”are there gray AREAS! other than drinking….”
Why can’t we see straight when we’re even actually TRYING to carefully edit our own stuff before posting online?
Coming in a little late as well…
I think drinking is purely a personal choice. It’s no secret drunkeness is a sin. I’ve found that since I don’t drink regularly, I would get a “buzz” when I’d have A drink. That buzz doesn’t make me feel like I’m bringing glory to God, so for me, it’s best not to drink.
Coming in late, as well, but I couldn’t pass this comment up.
I love Kendra’s idea (April 17, 12:33pm). That certainly blesses a waiter… more than non-waiters can imagine.
On that subject, I’ve never gotten a tract tip, but I’ve worked with people who have.
I also got nil for a tip from two guys with a $40 meal one day… I overheard them talking about how minimum wage had gone up that day. Of course, waiter minimum wage hadn’t. $2.13, baby… $2.13.
Anyone thinking they need to buy a drink or join in a drinking session to “break down barriers” between God and a non-believer is not on the right path.
God’s Word and his ministry doesn’t work through things that you do. It works through your efforts, but not by some methods that you dream up. It works through God and God alone. You can drink and get drunk and became pals with someone, but ONLY GOD can open their eyes. Your duty is simple – be a Christian and share the Word of God. It is strong enough for the Word is God.
And on drinking – there are no gray areas here. After becoming Christian (even though technically, I was born a Christian to Christian parents, I don’t believe you become Christian till that defining moment in your life when you have your eyes opened by God), I realized how hard and rocky this life really is. The Christian path is a lot narrower than you think. I can’t even watch TV or many movie anymore because I know it takes my focus off God.
You live in the world but not by the world. To have one foot in God’s camp and one on the side of the world leads nowhere. Not drinking is not something that I focused on at all – it is one of the things that happened when my true Christian life took root. It is a product of the Spirit and His work in your life. And this, and many other realizations can ONLY come from God.
It also requires you to forsake your life and place absolute reliance on God. Please do not be deceived. If you’re confused about this, do not look into your own understanding or your own interpretations – rather ask for God’s answer with sincere prayer. The answer will come.
I live in an area of the country where there is sadly much legalism. It can be quite confusing here on what glorifying God means, especially as each one justifies his own sins by condemning other sins as “worst”. What’s going on in my heart? Is God glorified by having a beer or a glass of wine? Is He glorified when I eat a piece of chocolate cake? Does the server hear my love for Jesus in the way I relate to him/her and to my friends who are with me while I’m enjoying my drink and cake? If I knowingly drink a beer or eat a piece of cake with a friend who is struggling in the area of gluttony or alcohol, may I be convicted quickly and repent. But otherwise, may I drink to the glory of God! How many sit in restaurants and order entirely too much food while we watch this country struggle with the sin of gluttony.
So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 1Cor. 10:31
Surely abstaining from all alcohol is not Biblical, Paul advises Timothy to drink a litle wine, Jesus turns water to wine, he commanded us to celebrate his sacrifice WHEN we drink it suggesting this will be a matter of course…
What has happened to biblical Christianity? With “Christians” straining to mimic unbelievers in their social habits, dress, entertainments, loves, and pursuits, where is servitude to Christ and clear separation from the world visible? Most of the responses I have read are indicate a spirit of running from commitment to Christ and His Word while looking for license to sin!