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Abraham, you make a very good point. I wonder if it (the list, and the generally intellectual environment of this “new calvinism”, of which I am a part) has or will have the unintended consequence of giving pastors inferiority complexes - because they simply haven’t read, for example, all of John Owen’s stuff (or any of it).

Is there a pressure being placed on pastors, that is unintentionally suggesting that they can’t be effective unless they read certain kinds of (intellectual) books, and lots of them?

I hope not. And I hope that we can strike some sort of balance on this.

Gavin, you bring up a good point I hadn’t thought of:

Not only is there pressure against the pastors who just don’t like these kinds of books, there’s also a pressure against pastors who do like them, but simply can’t get to as many as they now feel like they ought to.

I wonder if they had just said, “recommended,” rather than “approved.”

I’m sure it’s unintentional, but the language sounds cultic.

Just to be clear, I don’t think they used the word "approved." They didn’t on the page I got the link from, anyway.
I’d say my question stands, regardless.

I think “balance” is the key word. I see both extremes here in semi-rural North Georgia. Often pastoral scholarship is not even on the radar here ; high-energy emotionalism seems to be the major qualification of a pastor.

At the same time, I know men who seem to believe Christian “discipleship” is simply a strict regimen of puritan writings and biblical exegesis (perhaps even in that order!).

Perhaps the key is to have a measure of both in one person. But then again, I’m not a pastor either.

Where do you think John Bunyan falls here? Obviously he was not a “learned” man in his day. But then again, a 17th-century “unlearned” man and a 21st-century “unlearned” man are probably two totally different things.

It seems like if someone only read these kinds of books they’d be very boring except on points of theology.

I think the Bible does mandate a way of thinking–one that is often very different from the thinking of the natural world. I believe the authors try to get our thinking in-line with the Word. A means God uses.

I think a risk comes from getting wrapped up in the lingo of what Gavin calls the intellectual environment of this “new calvinism.” We can talk a lot about the things in these books using the lingo without truly understanding their Biblical foundation (speaking from personal experience here…). I’ve learned that when I discover a new way of talking about something, I need to make sure I know the Biblical foundation before I start talking about it with others. Then, my focus is on the Word, and not the book.

With Gavin, I’d say I’m “a part of” this environment, but aside from Piper, I’ve only cracked open 2 or 3 of the books on the list. At times I have felt a little lost talking to others who devote more time to reading these works.

I am thankful for these authors, and do hope to read more of their works.

I think that a list like this can lead pastors (and non-pastors, like myself) to feel that quantity is more important than quality. I have been VERY encouraged by hearing John Piper talk about how few books that he reads. He seems to sacrifice breadth for depth, and we can definitely see the fruits of this emphasis in his ministry.

I have been trying to make a change in this direction, to simply master a few books rather than read every one that is out there, but it is challenging, especially when confronted with great lists like this! The best that I can hope for right now is balance.

To answer your question posed in the title: Good gracious, I hope not.

There’s an arrogance (subtle? obvious?) attached to a lists like these.

I wonder if any of the four crossed off any of their own works….

I know that I have not read many Puritans at all. In fact, since becoming a father of two, remodeling a house in three months, attempting to write a doctrinal book for our fellowship, writing denominational Sunday School lessons,and pastoring two country churches, I find that I read less and less.
Yeah, I feel the need to read more. I read fast. Given time, I can read 200 pages in a day. I don’t have that time, though.
I do learn by proxy….I listen to Piper’s biographies

I think this list is just meant to provide a helpful starting place that a pastor might use to find some good books to start reading. I don’t think anyone is implying that you have to be some sort of super genius in order to be a pastor. Nor is it claiming to be the final word on helpful Christian reading material. It mainly seems to be a reaction to the overall lack of reading that occurs in many Christian lives, pastors or not.

I highly agree with Mickey’s comment above. It is very easy to get excited about wanting to read so many new books that I forget that the whole purpose of reading these books is to grow in a knowledge of God and apply those truths to my life. If that isn’t occurring, I’m missing the point. I know I’ve heard CJ speak before on mastering a few great books by studying and rereading, rather than attempting to reading large quantities of books but not getting as much out of it.

I wasn’t remarking so much on the quantity of books on the list as I was the type of books.

I would second Josh’s thought that probably “if someone only read these kinds of books they’d be very boring except on points of theology.”

It all depends on what “pigeonholes pastoral intellect” means. After all, it says right at the start of the list that it’s only a few books a couple of pastors picked.

It’s certainly not the bible that picked these books for pastors to read. Looking at the titles, it seems (on the whole) like a quite helpful list of things pastors might buy, but I don’t see any which is indispensable.

The guys who compiled the list ought not really to have said that pastors “should know about” the books or imply that they are indispensable, at any rate… If they wrote that (in the introduction to the list), it was ill-advised. As the teacher says, men are always writing books, and lots of study makes you tired.

—

SINCERE IGNORANCE AND CONSCIENTIOUS STUPIDITY
http://blog.myspace.com/CAUGHTNOTTAUGHT

i love reading, i love books, i love Christianity, i love good theology, and i like the sound of many of those books on the list.

but sometimes, to be honest, i wonder how much it really benefits a person when they’ve read their 27th book on the glory of God and have eight bookshelves full of great theology books. it seems to me that money and time could be better spent elsewhere, DOING something instead of reading about it.

i feel horrible saying that, but that’s what i wonder.

[...] 22 words has a (mini)post about the T4G reading list…all 14 pages of it.  [...]

Abraham - This must be why I never see you in the church bookstore. Is it the book selection or the fact that, like Josh, you find me very boring except on points of theology?

Could it possibly be both?

Signed,

Happy to special order for you.

MCL, do you misremember your own reading list?

If I recall correctly you’ve enjoyed a good Stephen King novel.

That would take you somewhat far afield from this list, I’d say.

When you play baseball, and it’s the on-season, you only do certain kinds of exercises.

When it’s the off-season, you do other kinds of exercises.

When it is pre-season, there is yet a third regimen to follow.

In our post-Christian society, let me suggest that pastors are either in pre-season or off-season training. I think that kind of training requires them to stay more focussed on the main thing than if we were in the middle of the Christian/cultural season at the top of our game.

Great point, Turk, although I thought that you were going the direction of the seasons of a pastor’s life rather than the season of society.

Both are pertinent aspects, I believe!

I cannot comment on the discussion because frankly, I’m clueless. I just had to say that I got an adrenaline rush when I saw that book list. I’m such a nerd.

Ultimately, however, many of us are left with a sense of guilt and inadequacy by lists such as these. We are left wondering why we don’t measure up.
Thankfully, we are not all required to be CJ, Al, Mark, John P, or John Mac. We are required to be faithful and do faithfully with what we are given. I believe that is one thing we must all remember, recommended reading lists, or not.
For that reason I must sign off and finish writing my lessons that are over due :-0

“Each of these books were carefully selected for the Together for the Gospel ‘08 book store.”

Apparently they didn’t check for duplicates, though:

• Humility: True Greatness (p.10) and Humility (p.11) are the same book.
• Ditto Sex, Romance and the Glory of God (found on both p.10 and p.11).
• [The] Cross-Centered Life and Christ Our Mediator were combined with an additional chapter (and maybe a new Introduction?) to form Living the Cross-Centered Life (all found on p.10).

That’s just C.J.’s books. There’s a bunch of John Piper duplicates, etc.

I think pastors would feel less overwhelmed if the had just edited the thing better. They’d probably chop a good 2-3 pages off that way.

And call me a cynical jerk, but if I were one of the T4G guys, I wouldn’t have let my entire libri vitae appear on the list of books that I “believe pastors should know about.” That does seem to cross the line into self-promotion. :/

BTW, I take full responsibility for any brain damage suffered as a result of the amateurish cobbling of Latin I committed in that last comment.

MCL, phone master, I can’t believe you would accuse me of such unfaithfulness. I don’t think you’re boring, just some of the books you stock!

Is the filling of the pastor’s head with the reading on many books at the expense of more important things? I would think that if reading all the right books replaces, say, shepherding, one has placed too much emphasis on having the ‘right’ intellectual bent.

I think it’s just as important to read the works of those with whom you have disagreements as it is to read the works of those with whom you would position yourself theologically. Additionally, I know that reading stuff beyond the periphery of my field of study has proven most beneficial to my development academically. Taking something that appears, at first, to be completely unrelated and then applying to your area of expertise can lead to new and important insights. that’s my two cents. Thanks for your blog Abraham … it’s usually thought provoking and great fun!

Interesting. I think theology can also shape our views of non-pastor people. Recently I saw someone’s bookshelf — quite impressive, even though I may not have read any of the books before. But somehow I have the impression that they are “good”… Someone there mentioned that the bookshelf was similar to that of a couple other people’s…And somehow the whole bookshelf experience caused me to wonder about someone else’s bookshelf (or ideal bookshelf), which is rather unfair and also hypocritical considering I just have the impression that certain authors & Puritan authors are “good”, even if I largely don’t know first hand…I guess my point is that hearsay and little to no experience with particular authors have influenced my way of thinking…but I didn’t grow up “reformed”…and I’m not sure if I’m “reformed”…I probably could be counted as such, but I was just talking to my sister, who said she doesn’t call herself as such (yet I think she just thinks that the TULIP or part of it is what the Bible says rather than having to be considered as “reformed”). My guess is that she probably is, but she doesn’t count herself as such. Anyway, I’m obviously a ‘novice’ even though I now go to a church that has reformed theology…anyway lots to learn

“if someone only read these kinds of books they’d be very boring except on points of theology.”

I think that’s only likely to be true for people that don’t make the transition from head to both heart and hands. People that read all those books (or a representative sampling) and not only understand but apply them are likely to be some of the most interesting people, in my view.

Unrelated…fess up–how do people get their photo next to their name?

Figured it out, obviously. (gravatar.com)

I used to think that just owning a certain book would somehow make me smarter about that given topic, but, sadly, it often just made me appear smarter than I actually was.

I have since learned that it is in many ways better to know a few books well (especially the Scriptures) than to have a surface knowledge of many books.

I also used to afraid for people to know that I read and owned a book by someone who wasn’t a Puritan, Reformed, or Baptist, like that wouldn’t reflect well on me. I have since quit worrying about that. I don’t often recommend books that don’t agree with my theology unless I know that person to be discerning (because some are less discerning with others) but I read whomever I choose and I prayerfully judge things by the Word.

Instead of letting people judge me by my library, they will have to evaluate me by who I am.

Josh S — I purchased about half the books you sold from your personal library recently on your move to FL. While there was more diversity of topics among your selection (at least, the selection that was for sale), most or all of the books would have required the same caliber of intellect to read as the books on the T4G list. Just an observation.

All — A few things to keep in mind:

1) The list is for pastors. No one suggested that those not in full time vocational ministry should read of be familiar with all of those books, as some of the above comments suggest. Nor is it suggested that any pastor should read all books mentioned on the list.

2) It is indeed worthwhile for a full time vocational minister to be familiar with a wide range of titles throughout history that have dealt with the timeless and authoritative work of interpreting Scripture. Please note that many books on the list are commentaries on specific books of the Bible.

3) To reiterate Point #2…since the Bible is an ancient book containing 66 books (according to the traditional canon — books like 1/2 Samuel were actually not split in the Hebrew texts) that were written in 2 ancient and now dead languages, including many books which are are hard to date, most pastors need all the help they can get in rightly wrapping their minds around these books and understanding what the authors meant when they wrote them and how they all fit together as God’s Word revelation about Himself.

Whether or not the list was intended be self-promoting or not, I don’t know, because that is an issue of the heart.

But I see nothing overtly arrogant about pastors that many have benefitted from composing a list of books that other pastors might be able to benefit from.

Beware lest our own insecurities or jealousies would drive us to assume the motives of those who put this list together.

“if someone only read these kinds of books they’d be very boring except on points of theology.”

I disagree. If someone only read these kinds of books they’d be very boring, period! Not only boring, but also lacking in spiritual depth and long in spiritual arrogance.

What kind of 21st century Christian book list includes over a page of John Macarthur and nothing by T.F. Torrence? And over a page of John Piper and nothing by Karl Barth? Two pages of R.C. Sproul and not a single title by G. C. Berkouwer. And all that Charles Spurgeon! My goodness, I’ve read a lot myself, but how much do you need? Write your own sermons!

John Calvin would cringe at the first article in T4G’s faith statement. No mention of Jesus until article VII? I think Calvin, if alive today, would sing (with gusto) “The Church’s One Foundation is Jesus Christ her Lord.” And would challenge T4G in their idolatry of the Bible. (By the way, so would St. Augie, who makes the list with Confessions but not with City of God, which is just as significant, perhaps more.)

Kristin,

You are right that many of the books I was selling were of the same caliber. And most of it was theology. I think pastors should read theology, of course. My point is if that’s all they read, then I think they’d probably be boring speakers (and conversationalists).

I know boring pastors who read mostly theology. And I know interesting pastors who read widely. And yes, I know boring pastors who are well-read too, but usually the reason they are boring is due to poor speaking skills and preparation.

Randy,

I like your disagreement!

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