Nov 25, 2008
Do you and your spouse take Paul’s command about the frequency of sex seriously?
[polldaddy poll=1137853]
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Am I SERIOUSLY the first one to comment? This has never happened before; although given the topic it does not surprise me in the least.
Not sure that I have anything of substance to say, I just really wanted to be the first to post. Although, I would be interested in hearing what kind of variables keep others from taking this command seriously.
My wife and I have had 6 kids in the past 7 years with two miscarriage in the mix. It has made it hard for to follow this command. Anyway, how does one follow this command when there are such serious variables like ours? hmmm . . .
I cannot believe this post is what got me to finally comment on your blog. I have been thinking about this verse a lot lately, and I mostly agree with it. But there are obviously extenuating circumstances, such as deployment, that Paul could not address but that I am certain were also very valid reasons.
We are still newlyweds (8/8/08) so it is not too difficult to disobey this command from Paul. But we are trying, now, to establish a proper biblical view of sex, and how we can serve each other most effectively and properly in this area.
Dude if this poll is somehow going to be used as ammunition in a fight with molly about sex, you are toast.
Its a good day to be single.
I voted yes, but sometimes I think only one of us actually does… and it isn’t the husband.
Leslie, I try to be stupid more subtly than that. :)
Mark Driscoll’s current sermon series on Song of Solomon “The Peasant Princess”…so excellent. I’m too internet lame to know how to link to it here, but all you tech savvy people can find it on marshillchurch.org.
Yes, this is to be taken very seriously. We’ve been married nearly 20 years and this has been consistent throughout that time. Sex is such a gift in marriage: it melts away petty irritation, it puts the brakes on bickering, it is a weapon against lust, and leads to so many other kindnesses. It also leads to children, which is particularly beautiful. Praise God for his goodness in this. Let us not be stingy in our marriages, but let us lavish each other with affection.
LOL good to hear!
One of the things I love about your blog is the random, surprise factor!
I am blushing too much for seriousness comment!
Intimacy: physical, emotional, communicative, etc, is ABSOLUTELY necessary for a healthy marriage. The importance of regular sex in a marriage is looked over too quickly by many in Christendom. There are many distractions in today’s society that tend to pull couples apart. A passion to practically apply this passage might vastly improve one’s marriage!
(currently married 17 years, 5 kids… and enjoying it more & more as time goes by!)
No (but I’m working on it).
I’d be more curious about a poll on the second part of that verse. How many actually abstain for the purpose of prayer?
Zelig –
Excellent thought.
As for actually commenting … whoaaaaa …. I’ll just let the scriptures speak for themselves here :-)
But, Myrddin, the scriptures don’t answer my question.
Of course, not wanting to comment makes a lot of sense. That’s why I used a poll.
This question reminds me of when my wife and I were newly married. I was at an EARLY morning Mens’ Bible study. I was gushing about how great it was too be married. The leader leaned back in his chair, roared with laughter and said, a twinkle in his eye, “It gets better!.” Now, 20 years later, I know that he was right.
Frequency down – pleasure up. That’s been our experience.
We do take it seriously, for sure, but there are those times, due to work or other pressures in life, in which it’s really hard to focus on such things.
Being as modest and respectful as possible, I’m very curious to learn from other people, who do take this command seriously, which one seems to struggle the most with keeping it; the husband or the wife?
To lead off by example, for us, it’s the husband.
What does Paul exactly mean by “agreement?”
On one level I would check YES, but on the other NO. And it hinges on what “agreement” means.
YES: If agreement means that ultimately we both say “ok, not tonight.” I say it more to concede, trying to be a servant. We agree then, right? I don’t think that is what Paul is saying, though.
NO: If agreement means a predetermined abstaining that has in mind a goal, namely prayer. The context supports this meaning more.
Not much of a doer here. But progressive sanctification could mean more sex.
Having only been married for less than 3 months, obedience to 1 Cor 7:5 has been mostly effortless so far!;-)
After listening to some of Driscoll’s current series, I was greatly disheartened. He more or less said that guys who don’t want it ALL THE TIME aren’t normal. So if the man isn’t up to it due to exhaustion or job stress or something entirely unrelated to his wife what do you do? It’s not fair to the wife to be deprived, but shouldn’t she just be grateful that the husband is a hard worker striving to provide for his family and less than regular intimacy is the price to be paid?
This is certainly a strenuous subject in our marriage and has been since the beginning.
Personally, I try and focus more on the command to make sure my wife’s head is covered because of the angels.
:) Yes! My husband teases me sometimes, and says, “Now, honey, I’m only desiring sex for your spiritual benefit. I don’t want Satan to get a foothold in our marriage.” True, but funny when he says it. :D
Blushing***
This has been on my heart lately. I have neglected to meet my husbands needs on many occasions….and he so graciously continues to meet mine.
I am striving to do my husband good all the days of his life…
more blushing***
I have not been able to live up to this much in our 8 years of marriage. Early on we had some issues in which our intimacy was damaged (no cheating or anything like that). If we would have been more serious about following the Bible in this respect things would most likely be much different now. Our marriage is a sexual desert with an occasional oasis at this time.
It is sad. I encourage anyone who reads this post that is not married, or is newly married, to build on a Biblical sexual foundation within that marriage. It is a part of our unhappy marriage. We are both Christians, but it has limited our ability to serve God in ministry. Paul was serious in this Scripture.
Also, choose wisely whom you will marry. Make sure ministry goals and future plans are compatible.
whoa, lets grab our sleds, shall we? ;d
I think couples have to be very wary (Eph 6:12) of the implications (baggage) that their idea of a so called “good” sex life can bring, wary of where they might have picked-up ideas of what that’s supposed to look like..(cue: toss those t.v.’s, romance novels and “self-help” reads) If either is *too* focused on what a good sex life should be than the cards are already being stacked against them.
Especially in the first several years of marriage frequency, experience, what have you..is not always going to be a “10″ and not always going to be a “0″, it will be many in-betweens, especially ..expect that.
I think the hardest part for women to understand and accept is that for their spouse sex is not as much an emotional thing as it is a physical one, men are driven physically not emotionally when it comes to sex. Although, the longer you’re together the the more the physical and emotional meld. (I am not saying men are *not emotional about sex, they are, just in a different way).
The raising children years are the most challenging, being on call 24/7 for 17 to 20 years (give-er-take) does put a damper on things.
Here’s the important point: If the husband is fulfilling his role in the house and the wife hers, making the growing in faith through the knowledge and grace of Jesus Christ their first priority than this beautiful part of marriage has the best chance of being healthy.
What was the question? Sorry ;)
27 years here.
(and that by God’s grace alone, (!!) believe me – “growing in faith…” were not our priorities the first 25 years)
Wise and heartfelt words, X7V2..
Several posts were added by the time I hit “submit” and I did not see your post above, so if mine seemed a little cold, or strange right below yours..I didn’t mean for it too.
(i so dislike wordpress no-preview in the comment dealy)
thankfully, and honestly, my wife and I have never even had to worry about that command! We’ve been married almost 10 years and are trucking right along! :-)
I believe we have obeyed that command without having Paul or 1 Cor. 7 in mind… by God’s grace. We are both grateful to the Lord for our 3 healthy children and continue to be sexually satisfied.
I am also enjoying Driscoll’s Peasant Princess series. It is a great reminder as a wife what my husband needs and to put him before our kids.
I also love Carolyn Mahaney’s advice to spend your energy elsewhere than the kitchen… he won’t mind peanut butter and jelly for dinner if it means quick clean up and sex is in the picture for later!
I love reading comments. They make me laugh (and blush, in this case). It’s good to blush.
I find this discussion fascinating. I only wish you had included a grammatical error so your mom would weigh in. LOL
Seriously, after 17 years and 4 kids, we are in a much better place than our early years. But I can still be selfish and fail to meet his needs. I wish I had known 17 years ago what I know now. And probably in another 17 I will feel the same way.
I would tell young engaged people this: Marriage requires much grace and commitment. And sex.
Leslie
My fiance and I are currently reading through Sacred Marriage by Gary Thomas with a mentoring couple and he has an entire chapter on this verse. Don’t have time to go into it now (am writing from work) but I recommend looking into it if you have the chance. His take: your prayer life will suffer if you are not caring for your spouse… Interesting to to consider. (My summary is weak–recommend you read the book!)
We joke about it if it comes up (“Oh, remember you’re not supposed to deprive me except for prayer and by mutual agreement!”) and I guess it crosses our minds sometimes when considering whether or not to say ‘yes’. But on the whole I would say no, we don’t take it seriously.
C:
Yes, she should be grateful that her husband is a hard-worker, but no, she still needs regular intimacy (which doesn’t necessarily mean daily intercourse, if I’m allowed to use that word).
It sounds like both of you are feeling rather unloved and unappreciated, and I pray that you will find a way through this. God is so faithful to do more than both of you can ask or imagine.
I can’t really answer the poll because I don’t know what “agreement” means. Does it mean that both appetites are in sync or does it mean that one agrees when the other is dealing with things?
We abstain for health reasons (mainly mine) and while my caring husband almost always puts my needs before his own I wouldn’t call it abstaining because of agreement.
We too, have been following Driscoll’s series, and, while I love Driscoll’s ministry and respect him a lot I think he did make people feel like there was some kind of “Christian quota” to meet. It caused a huge fight in our marriage mainly because the series made me believe that despite my health struggles I was neglecting my husband (even though my own husband didn’t feel that way). We finally understood each other after a LONG discussion into the wee hours of the night and, in all honesty, I was pretty mad at Mark Driscoll the next day (I need my sleep!)…I’m over it now and I really respect Pastor Mark for addressing this topic and other topics many pastors are too afraid to touch.
I don’t this verse means you have to “do it” every day or even every other day. (Not that I’m reavealing in the least – ha!), but it’s the principle. And honestly, sex includes a TON more than just the actual act. And I think that stuff counts too. A
nd when I’m like, “You wanna?” and he’s like, “I’m sooo sleepy” (seriously, boys get tired too), sometimes they way we choose to not deprive one another in those circumstances is to schedule an “us” time where we’re both mentally present enough to indulge.
Principle, principle!
(I guess I’m tired of hearing from women (or men) who pride themselves in saying, “I’ve never said no” as if they are more godly or obey this verse more fully. There are so many variables, and God sees our hearts. Always.)
I think it is important, well noted above, that intimacy and frequency are important in marriage. There is a connection that is made between a man and a woman that God has blessed and is very important to keeping the unity of the now one body (husband and wife) united in Christ.
What bugs me lately is that certain megachurches are taking the topic of frequency and sex (The Seven Day Sex Challenge ) see link http://www.fellowshipchurch.com/lustvegas?FCW=0v9pf5kg9q4j64tq0cmnepcd50
as THE main sermon topic and overshadowing the gospel message and pretty much making a laughing stock of the church via the media.
I guess I could have used the word important another 5 times in the last entry.. you can see I don’t usually take time to edit my comments. oh well.
Not to vindicate Ed Young or anything, right?
AP –
The silence of the scriptures was precisely my point in defering to them :-) … in jest.
I’m far from offended, just not going to give a prose account of the the marriage chamber on a blog.
I did vote in the poll, though.
Josh S.
That was funny.
um. let’s recap some of the “getting to know you” posts.
there was the “what’s your name and where do you live?”
there was the “what do you do for a living?”
and now the “are you gettin’ any?”
hm. you are an interesting fella.
i didn’t vote. we haven’t really looked at that passage together, so i don’t have a vote.
we do take the command seriously. There is so much communication that goes on in being intimate that neither of us can go long without needing to get back to the place where it’s “just us” and all is right in our little world. We also have set aside time for voluntary abstinance for the express purpose of prayer and fasting. Those times remind us both that God is our center, not sex or, more dangerously, each other. I’d expound, but I’m tapping this out on my iPhone. :)
Am I reading that correctly to say that if one spouse wants to have sex and the other isn’t praying at the moment, they’ve both gotta jump into bed and get busy?
If so, that seems ridiculous, pointless, and even cruel. The very use of the word “deprive” chafes me, since sex is not something you “receive” in a marriage or serious relationship. It’s something you do for mutual benefit and bonding.
In my six-plus years with my wife (a year and a half of which we have been married), I have found that sex is only enjoyable and worthwhile when we are both in the mood for it. Sure, sometimes we have to work at creating situations where we are both in the mood — it’s no coincidence that we are intimate much more frequently on vacations than when we are busy with our careers — but I would never accuse her of “depriving” me because I want it and she’s not interested at the moment. And I would be pissed if she did the same to me.
there are so many words in that phrase that i would like clarification on: like what does “deprive” really mean, like tonight, or like the month of december? what does “by agreement” mean? does not doing it mean it has to be both of your ideas? or can it mean that one understands the others need is greater than their own and therefore “agrees” not push the issue?
as i see the verse, i agree. i think it goes along with the biblical instructions for marriage.
Ben,
“I have found that sex is only enjoyable and worthwhile when we are both in the mood for it.”
Thanks for mentioning that. I have found the same to be true. I think that that is really serving one another. A joyless and reluctant obedience to 1 Cor. 7:5 is no fun for anyone.
Well, I’d love to sit around and talk, but… uh… I’ll catch you guys later.
There is a distance that comes between us if we don’t come together regularly. I once heard it said that it is helpful to picture the enemy sleeping in the space you leave between you and your spouse in bed…
I realize this is a bit over the top. But the sentiment is something I feel has some truth.
So, “yes”, is said more often than not.
Thanks for braving the topic.
Jennapants, your comment made me laugh so hard! Thank you.
Josh S’s comment was pretty darn funny too!
Ouch Abraham, this post was timely. I would have to say hubby and I have both been guilty of not taking this seriously enough, but I am guilty of it far more than he is. I suppose I could go into all the excuses as to why… but you know the saying… excuses, excuses.
I remember reading something by CJ Mahaney’s wife and she quoted someone as saying “I have heard many excuses for not having sex, but fasting and prayer are never one of them”
Let’s just say I have a lot of baggage in that area. and because of deficiencies in other areas of our marriage, it makes it hard for me.
Probably the number one thing is past sexual abuse that makes me see sex as “yucky”
Is God understanding about that, or is there really no excuse? What about having a husband who just won’t talk to you or be intimate with you emotionally? THAT is one thing that makes it so hard. Anybody is free to answer this.
here here Here larry norman
Tina,
Sin affects the wholeness that God desires in our relationships. I’d be willing to say *every* marriage has sexual issues that must be worked through. Just this past week I discovered I had an intimacy-damaging problem that, before last week, I hadn’t realized was an issue for me. I would have told you that I thought us healthy, when I was still damaged and needed healing from a sexual sin against me in the past.
God doesn’t want you to go against your conscience; He wants to *fix* your conscience, which has unfortunately been damaged by the sexual sin of another person. Paul told Timothy, “The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.” Sex should be love for your spouse, springing from a good conscience (freed, as best as you can be, from the damage that sexual sin causes) and a sincere faith (thanking God for the gift of sex and the intimacy it promotes in your marriage). In that, God is understanding that you are not at a place which fosters the free, gracious giving and receiving of sex that Paul commands in 1 Corinthians 7.
This doesn’t mean, however, that you should abstain from sex until your issues are completely worked out. Healthy sex is a work in progress, I’ve been finding. The fact that a) you have abuse in your past, b) your husband “just won’t talk to you or be intimate with you emotionally,” and c) you’re sensitive to wanting to obey God in this matter, makes me believe you should find a godly older couple in your small group or church who can help you through counsel. The Body should bear each other’s burdens, because that fulfills the law of Christ. There is healing, and it sounds like you really want it. Ask Jesus for it.
My wife and I will be praying for you guys.
Hmmmmm…
Tina -
I read your post and I wish I could have a coffee with you…
Having sex with a husband who “just won’t talk to you or be intimate with you emotionally” is tough. It is similar to the feeling of abuse. My body being used by another with no regard to my feelings, and I end up feeling dirty. I know – I’ve lived through both.
Having sex with a husband who does talk to you, is intimate with you emotionally, and seeks to restore your sense of value and beauty and is gentle…. that is something altogether different, and actually can be one of the greatest means God has of healing the pain of sexual abuse. I know this, too – lived through it.
And between the two, we have also had our ups and downs as is normal in life.
It is just very hard for a woman to be vulnerable in that way to a man who is harsh and judgemental verbally or in actions, to a man who does not connect emotionally to her, without feeling used and feeling like an object.
And the opposite is also thankfully true. Being loved emotionally, verbally, and sexually leaves a woman feeling valued and appreciated and special.
I’m single so I won’t vote… but I do want to contribute from my observance of my parents:
They have shown me that God created procreation to be an integral and fundamental part of sex. My family has 7 kids. My parents have chosen to use Natural Family Planning instead of any artificial birth control. Under this method, abstaining in order to prevent pregnancy is a very serious choice. It causes the couple to frequently reexamine their motives for delaying pregnancy, forcing them to decide whether the choice to abstain is made out of selfishness or lack of faith, or due to reasons such as a mutual assurance of God’s will, health and child spacing.
Natural Family Planning can lead to more openness and unity in a marriage as the couple learns to reexamine their motives for sex, learning that rather than just seeking satisfaction from it, it is an act of giving to God and each other. Hopefully, couples learn to ask themselves “What are good reasons and motives to join together through sex? What are the good reasons and motives to abstain?”
Ah, the lovely anonymity of the blogosphere! I don’t know if I’m crazy to contribute this as a single… but I care about this subject and, in my own weak way, I wanted to add my two cents…
Suzanne wrote @ November 25, 2008 at 11:24 am
“Several posts were added …so if mine seemed a little cold, or strange right below yours..I didn’t mean for it to.”
No worries, Suzanne, thank you for caring, I really appreciate it.