Mar 12, 2009
Imagine what it’s like to be both homosexual and Christian before offering a fix.
I recommend Misty Iron’s response to some comments about Wesley Hill’s article on homosexuality and the church, especially her last two paragraphs.
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In paragraph eight, Misty writes “if you were lucky enough to be straight”. I don’t subscribe to luck, so does that mean our sexual orientation comes from our Creator? Just asking. I enjoyed her post immensely.
I wish all Blogspot bloggers provided a WordPress copy of their posts.
Blogspot is blocked at my work, while WordPress isn’t.
And remember that some of us don’t have to imagine.
1. thanks for linking to this, Abraham. Misty’s response is spot on, and Wesley’s article is both gut-wrenchingly honest and succinct.
2. i hope everyone is beginning to catch on to the deep emotional side of struggling with this desire. as one who has had to fight this fight for over a decade now, i can personally tell you that:
a. the loneliness is real;
b. the need for caring community is dire;
c. i would appreciate a listening ear over dealing with theological or psychological arguments any day (don’t get me wrong: these arguments have their [very valuable] place); but as was seen in the comments on wesley’s article, the arguments somehow manage to trump the listening. we can talk through these on a different post. chances are, those of us who wrestle with this have already spent a lot of time and energy working through the issues.
d. i know very few for whom everything just “goes away”, even after years of striving to live like Christ. we discipline ourselves in godliness to avoid sin, but (and this is after a decade) the desire (and its pull) doesn’t go away…
3. hear and feel the impact of Wesley’s words, “if it weren’t for these few-how few…”. i guarantee that that is one of the most emotionally loaded ellipses you will read. we feel that in ways so intense that words can’t begin to describe it.
so even in a venue as small as a blog’s comment section, please throw a virtual arm around the shoulders of your brothers and sisters in Christ and listen. even better, throw your (real) arm around those who struggle against homosexual desires in your local church. if you’re so inclined, please ask us questions. some of us have been dealing with this for long enough that we don’t mind talking.
but above all, don’t forget that Christ-like burden-bearing involves much more than words – even as few as 22 of them. this is new territory for all of us. we’d love you to hear about our journey.
I disagree with her article’s main point for one reason only: I know what it’s like to be in the thrall of sexual sin.
The compulsion to have sex outside of marriage is, frankly, a bone-crushing urge. It is fueled by biology, psychology, and in our culture by every form of media and art.
Yet it is still a sin. It is a sin just like lying — it offends God. The consequences to us are the same whether it is sex or lies or murder.
That is the problem, not how hard it is to obey the Law: our problem is that what we want is not what God commanded.
I think that view of sin breeds empathy and not arrogance or superiority. That view of sin causes us to show pity and desire mercy for our fellow sinners, especially when they are our fellow adopted children in Christ.
My brother recently called me, devastated that one of his friends lied to him for fourteen years about his sexuality. His best friend and his best man, this guy meant the world to Aaron. He called me wanting to know what to do about it, and I had to be honest with him that, very often, the “sin of homosexuality” is oftentimes mishandled and misappropriated on both extremes – in people embracing it wrongly and in people pushing homosexuals away wrongly.
Two days back, when walking through Blockbuster, I noted that within the last two years, a heavy amount of homosexual films have reached the shelves, causing me to think that my kids (whenever they’re spawned) will grow up in a world that has never seen the line between what evangelical Christians have understood as the proper ordinances of marriage (one man, one woman, permanent covenant unity) and the standard now being so embraced (to each his own).
All this to say, I wonder what the dialogue will be like, say, ten years from now between “Christian homosexuals” (or, “Christians who struggle with same-sex desires,” however you want to coin it) and “Christian heterosexuals.” I wonder if the dialogue will lean toward a balance of understanding and encouraging each other to stay in the faith despite the perversions of either sexual orientation – or whether we’ll see blurred lines and loss of distinctions.
I know, for myself, I want to touch people compassionately with a gospel that reaches deeply into their most deeply felt needs. Some and bents might not heal in this lifetime, but I think we can herald the gospel’s patience with all of us rife with sin from our mother’s womb.
[...] (HT: Abraham Piper) [...]
I would have to say that I agree with Misty Iron’s commentary, but feel a strong desire to temper some of what she said – especially the implied point that homosexuality is somehow more ingrained in us than other forms of sin. It is not as “other” as she seems to be implying.
I agree with her in that homosexuality is something that runs very deep and is much more serious than a person’s propensity to get angry while driving down the road. It is categorically different and the things that help with your anger problem may not help in the same way. Homosexuality is more ingrained in the brain chemistry of those that struggle with it than simple anger issues.
Given that, what I want to temper Misty’s commentary with is the fact that there are plenty of struggles that are very comparable to homosexuality in that they do play heavily on brain chemistry. Drug and alcohol addictions have a very obvious correlation in my mind because they can often leave those that struggle with it in life-long battle to overcome them. Brains do not quickly, and sometimes never, recover from a “need” for a fix. They can start very early in a person’s life and can consume their every waking thought.
Then there are other forms of sexual addictions other than homosexuality. Those with sexual desires targeted to children often struggle their entire lives with their thoughts and desires – and these often happen at a very early age. Even “normal” heterosexual addicts who just use pornography or engage in illicit sexual activity outside of the Christian norm can have their whole life affected by it on a 24/7 basis.
I guess my point is that there are lots of ways for people who do not struggle with homosexuality to identify and to help those that do. Those who struggle with homosexuality are not alone.
It is my unscientific and untaught opinion that homosexuality is most like other forms of sexual addiction and that a person struggling in this way would do best to get in group of recovering sex addicts that can support their recovery. They really are not that different and can learn a lot from each other.
In trying to think beyond our initial discussion to more practical ways to love and be family with Christians with SSA, I couldn’t get over the tremendous practical challenges that have to be worked through. E.g. What kind of household can someone with SSA create? If they have roommates that are the same sex, what do they do with the fear of being tempted to sexual sin, or simply with the “appearance of evil” factor? Is the solution to live with people of the opposite/i> sex? Wouldn’t the same issues apply?
When those questions can’t be answered readily, and the only solution seems at first to be living permanently alone……
That just seems really, really wrong and hard.
Perhaps a solution lies in whole family units beign willing to not just “come alongside” someone, but actually make them part of their own family. Having gotten married later than average, I actually had a “spiritual” family with whom I lived and served for a number of years, and the spiritual blessings are wtih me to this day.
Just thinking out loud.
I have to agree with Rachel on this one. Even just “thinking out loud,” the idea of loneliness because you have no other options as far as attraction goes seems horrific. I wouldn’t see that as a justification for sexual deviancy, but I would see that as a need for the church to step up and create the sort of community that fosters healing and safety.
I read both articles and almost all the responses at JT’s blog. They were so thought provoking and I am grateful and more aware of the intricacies of sin and temptation for having read them. WHile I read them I thought of that verse about taking every sin (or thought or temptation) captive and killing it and how perhaps thats the true source of Hill’s problem (Although I can concede the deep complexities of the entire issue). In fact, one commenter at JT’s blog, BekahMae, brought up that very idea. I thought hers one was one of the best responses and I encourage everyone should go read it.
And I think that’s the one thing that’s stuck with me as I have read through these articles. We are tempted on all sides to sin, and all sin is horrific and we merit nothing less than the wrath of God because of it. But we aren’t called to be satisfied in only “going so far to try and kill it”. We are commanded to kill it. Killing sin is hard, perhaps nearly impossible. But Christ killed sin on the cross and we are called to kill sin in our lives. And the temptation to give into that sin may never end, we could be tortured mentally and spiritually by that temptation to sin every day for the rest of our lives but we still have to strive to kill it. But the burden of that can be made lighter through our relationship with Christ and secondly with people who can help us to strive toward that end.
Just my undeveloped thoughts on the issue.
Sorry- should have said that everyone should go and read BekahMae’s response.
Frank–
I sympathize but disagree with your comparison, for at least these reasons:
1. Our desires for sex outside marriage are perverted desires for a good thing. This is true of SSA as well, but I think the difference in degree is dramatic enough that it bears mentioning.
2. We– married men tempted by sex outside marriage– don’t face the kind of loneliness and ostracization that people with SSA do. I know I’m not alone in struggling with sexual temptation, because I can talk to any other married Christian man about it. (If there are circumstances I don’t know about that make this not true for you or anyone else reading, I apologize.)
3. Our sexual desires can in some sense be ameliorated by a healthy sex life within our marriages. Many with SSA don’t have that option on the table at all.
You are, of course, right that SSA is, like all sin, caused by “what we want not being what God commanded.” But I feel like we have to agree that there are uniquely difficult circumstances faced by those who are tempted by this specific sin.
This post is a great reminder that Christians should allow for honest questions and be compassionate, while holding fast to Biblical convictions.
this is all very interesting, and i have by no means come to a conclusion on all the complexities of this discussion. but one thought is resounding in my mind:
is this a special sin? is this a special issue? is this sin inherently different from any other?
are we tempted to say that it IS, only because of the social implications of what we believe about it? or do we say that it’s different because that’s what Scripture or Jesus says? or do we say that because it seems to be revealed as the truth in the way it plays out in our churches and our world?
SOMEthing isn’t right in all this …. but i think it has more to do with our corporate sin in the Body of Christ than it has to do with the inherent nature of any particular, personal sin.
or, in other words: if polled, i wonder how many of us would say that there are sins in our lives, past or present, which have gripped us so tightly as to nearly strangle us to a spiritual death, and yet we have left them un-confessed among the saints to let them fester and prick and bleed us dry, not unsimilar to nouen’s ‘wound.’ it’s just that, though it might be SSA for some, it’s something entirely different for others. but we are no less in need of God’s grace nor of Christ’s Body to sustain us through those fiery places of temptation and sin.
I find this subject really sad. I read the women’s post and I as much as I respect her empathy for homosexuals and their struggles, I disagree that solution is for them to just deny their inclinations and lead a solitary life (romantically).
In my opinion it’s just not the same as a heterosexual’s struggle to be monogamous in marriage. Yes as straights we should struggle against our desires to sleep around, but at least we have a pure outlet for this desire through marriage.
A homosexual has no outlet in this context, and to say that should deny their attractions completely is like telling a blue eyed person they really should have brown eyes and should just “struggle” against their blue eyes. It’s basically asking them to live a lie. Not to temper their attractions, but to choose to avoid the natural attractions they never chose to have.
“Created sick and commanded to be well”
Drew-
I think the real issue here is, “what makes sex good?” I don’t think that any sexual interaction between a husband and wife is good/right sex, but I do think that only good/right sex can happen between a husband and a wife.
In my opinion, homosexuality is completely about bad sex. Often times it is couched in the terms of ‘attraction’ – but I find this term rather meaningless. What does it mean for a homosexual or a heterosexual to be ‘attracted’ to someone? I find that many people have real problems answering this question and simply use the word ‘attraction’ to mean ‘have sex with.’
What I have found in talking with Christians who struggle with SGA/SSA is that there biggest desire to feel connected, to feel a part of manliness (i’ve only really talked with men who struggle). A lot of men (all is probably more accurate) have this desire but for certain reasons those who struggle with SGA have sexualized that desire or used sex to deal with the feelings of emptiness and otherness.
It is the same with those who suffer from other forms of sexual addiction. A man who goes to pornography/molestation/sleeping around on a regular basis has some sickness in his soul that he uses the images or acts to try and heal. It seems to me that homosexuality is very much the same.
So from where I am sitting it is not about telling a brown eyed person to fight for blue eyes. It is telling a sick soul to stop killing itself and embrace the only real hope that it has. It is telling a person in great need that homosexual sex is not the answer to their problems.
A person struggling with SGA is a lot like everyone else when you get down to the basics – they just suffer from something that is physical-chemical in addition to being emotional-spiritual.
This post and all the comments have stirred up a lot of things…but I’ll try to keep it short.
As a 23 year old guy who walked away from the gay lifestyle a little over a year ago, the thing that irks me the most is that so many people do not understand this issue. The core issue is not about sexual attraction. Yeah, that’s an obvious part of it that needs to be addressed. But homosexuality boils down to a much larger identity issue.
The problem is not that I am attracted to men. The problem is that I have grown up believing that I am never good enough; that I am not man enough; that I cannot live up to people’s expectations; that because I do not feel like a man, I must be with a man so that I feel whole (because all men need to feel like a man).
But in the past year, the lies that I have believed about myself my entire life have been exposed. There are few days when it’s not hard. But I have experienced God’s grace, and as I continue to find my identity as a man of God, my attractions become less of problem (they have not gone away, but just aren’t as a big of a deal because I know they are just me trying to meet real needs in unhealthy ways!). Having good friends (male friends especially) around me throughout this process has been instrumental to the progress I’ve made. The more I feel accepted as a man by other men, the easier it gets. (That sentence right there is HUGE, btw…so important.)
Well there are my two cents. Hope that’s at least a little helpful. And I agree with the others who have said: love, listen, and learn more. It means a lot when people genuinely want to know about my struggle.
Joe-
“A man who goes to pornography/molestation/sleeping around on a regular basis has some sickness in his soul that he uses the images or acts to try and heal. It seems to me that homosexuality is very much the same.”
I think the problem here is that you would compare something like molestation to homosexuality. The first is an evil choice and a violation of someone else’s body (usually an innocent child). The latter is often just the expression of one’s natural physical attractions they were born with and should be between consenting adults and can/should be monogomous.
Ryan-
“But in the past year, the lies that I have believed about myself my entire life have been exposed”
I am happy for you that you have discovered your true self which is on the hetero side despite your previous gay feelings. That is great. But I think you would have to recgonize that many gay people have the exact opposite experience in life, for them trying to live hetero was a total lie and that being honest about their sexual nature finally frees them to be true to who they are, and they even can be Christians.
For example the blogger Andrew Sullivan at the Daily Dish who is openly gay and openly Christian. Its possible for him.
I mean lets be honest, the reason so many Christians see homosexuality as evil is because the Bible says so. But the Bible also once instructed parents to kill their disobedient children and condones human slavery, both of which no one considers ethical today.
Therefore does the Bible really merit the moral credentials to trump our human ethical progression?
This is a really fascinating conversation, and one which I would like to see more dialogue on. I especially appreciated Ryan’s perspective and honesty. Thank you!
A question I’d like to pose is in wondering why homosexual celibacy is assumed to be much harder to bear than heterosexual celibacy?
I’m 28 years and, by God’s grace, a virgin, but I’m not going to be married tomorrow because I can’t just “make” that happen. So, for me, there is no clear end of singleness in sight. Yet no one pities me for not being able to explore my sexuality.
I’m not asking for pity, either; I guess what I’m saying is that perhaps we need to stop offering pity and/or loopholes to those who struggle with inclinations and instead offer them strength, encouragement and the resources to fight their battle. I’m sure we can learn lots from Christians who have struggled with this already, and I’d love to hear more from them about how they specifically fought their battle.
EDIT: meant to be “with [homosexual] inclinations”.
Danielle-
Thanks for your kind words. :) And I personally think that celibacy is downright hard, no matter who you’re attracted to. Homosexuality just has a lot of other stuff that comes along with it…it’s not just about having sex or not. But yeah, I agree that pity is not the answer.
Drew-
Your question is a good one. I’ll tell you right now that I don’t have all the answers. But I can tell you that I believe that the Bible is truth and it is the foundation of everything I believe. I also know that the words “our human ethical progression” are a little scary to hear. We need to have some sort of foundation or basis to our morality. Left to our own, I don’t think we would fare too well.
As for my “previous gay feelings,” they are still there. I am still physically attracted to men and I have feelings every day that tell me I’m gay. But feelings are not always truth, I’ve learned. I thought that I was being “me” while living a gay lifestyle (and I won’t lie, it was WAS liberating and I felt good…for a while), but I only began to be honest with myself when I admitted that I was not happy and would only be so when I chose to be who I was created to be: a man modeled after Christ. I like when Augustine says in his Confessions that we are only truly happy when we are doing what we were created to do (paraphrased). I have found this to be very true.
If this doesn’t make sense, I apologize. But this is what I believe to be true.
Do you agree with Misty’s stance that Christians should support same sex marriage?
Ryan, i really like what you had to say. thanks. actually, i really like what a lot of commenters have had to say today.
i read Wesley Hill’s article and now Misty Iron’s follow-up, and i think i’ve now officially been confronted with a topic that, as a Christian, i just haven’t known or cared much about before. confronted in a good way.
it’s been a big month for me – first tobacco, now this. :] lots of thinking to do.
Hmmm, interesting.
My only comment is in light of the first comment…
Pat wrote: “so does that mean our sexual orientation comes from our Creator?”
I have always been puzzled by Romans one, where it very specifically says that God gave them over to this.
If we believe “homosexuality lived out” to be sinful, then it follows that we would oppose homosexual “marriage”.
If we apply that principle to other sins (such as coveting other people’s money), then we would not expect the person tempted to steal money to inhibit themselves from stealing. We would rather say that they couldn’t help expressing the besetting sin with which they struggle.
Sometimes I wonder if we have accorded such a special status to the sin(s) involved in homoexuality that we made it almost impossible to deal simply and powerfully with them.
Hubby and I found it very confusing 26 years ago to deal with the core sins that energized our divorce (6 1/2 years) and complicated our reconciliation, because most Christians were SO ready to “recognize the problems, discuss the issues” and overall, felt such “compassion” for us that they were incapable of using Biblical common sense or plain talk. They spent more time excusing the sins involved than recommending they be dealt with.
Making any sin “special” really complicates the application of Biblical solutions.
[...] A suggestion. [...]
[...] A suggestion. [...]
I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.
Or here’s a crazy idea: Don’t offer a “fix” unless they ask for one. Unlike cheating on a spouse or molesting children or the other ridiculous comparisons offered here, same sex love doesn’t harm anyone.
A good 5% or so of us are born incapable of romantically loving and being attracted to the opposite sex. Asking them to either learn to love the opposite sex like the rest of us or just give up on love/sex is the equivalent of telling a handicapped person to either learn how to walk on two legs like the rest of us or give up on walking or telling a woman to just learn how to pee standing up like the rest of us or hold it in for her entire life. Some people are born different and, so long as their orientation doesn’t harm other people, we need to accomodate them, not judge them.
Oh, and if they do ask for a fix, be very wary. In my experience, while it’s possible for a person to want to be celibate, it’s usually a sign of a deep seated psychological issue (why do so many priests end up molesting children? hmmmmm) that needs to be addressed. And any gay person who “turns straight” is harming themselves and, even worse, their opposite sex mate by trying to live in denial. I’ve seen several marriages broken when one partner finally admits s/he is gay and it’s just awful.
Although I really appreciate her empathy in responding to Wesley’s article, I don’t agree with Misty. In fact, I think that her thinking allows those struggling with their homosexual orientations to see themselves in an isolated category of struggle, and to further allow this thinking to isolate them from the Christian community (more than they already feel isolated). Simply because something is a part of one’s identity does not make it a special category of struggle that no one else can relate to. We all have pieces of our identity/orientation that predispose us to certain sins; it’s just that most of our sins are more “common.” Homosexuals are not alone in this. I’ve seen this clearly demonstrated in the lives of inner-city youth I’m currently working with.
Some people are born with a chemical predilection toward alcohol and will always struggle with drinking. Some people are raised in angry environments and their emotional orientation is hardwired from the start toward anger and rage — and they will struggle with it their whole lives. There is no question in my mind that some people are predisposed toward incest from childhood, and are oriented toward it in ways I will never understand. We are all predisposed toward pride. Anorexics have an inbred desire to starve themselves that they usually struggle with for most of their lives. Some of them have had this orientation as early as childhood. Others of us are rule-keepers who are predisposed toward self-righteousness — watch any classroom of small children and you will quickly spot them — they are the ones raising their hands when called on and sitting quietly in their chairs as asked. Most of them will be hardwired that way until they die and will fight legalistic tendencies throughout their lives.
So yes, the identity issue in homosexuality has often been underestimated by the Christian public — but only because we fail to see our own identity issues in our temptations which appear to be “more common.” It’s only that our sin struggles appear more common and less exotic than that of our homosexual friends. But they are real, and they are there.
Please don’t think it is empathy to isolate our friends with homosexual orientations into a “special” category of struggle that the rest of us heterosexuals could never, ever relate to and therefore we are relegated only to the role of listening rather than relating/interacting. We all have predispositions and identities from childhood that affect the way that we view life, make decisions, and decide what we are tempted by. It is well-intentioned but poor ecclesiology (sp?) to say that the rest of us are not “hardwired” from birth toward certain temptations in our identity and therefore could never have anything to offer a homosexual friend.
I agree wholeheartedly with Misty that the way to reach out and minister to those struggling with SSA is to be their friend. Because SSA is a sin that is so entangled with one’s identity, simply offering a trite, quick fix will not suffice.
But we do a disservice to those struggling to overcome SSA by simply encouraging them to remain steadfast in their celibate homosexuality. This implies that God created them to be homosexual and then called them to suppress who He created them to be. Is that an accurate picture of the loving and just God we worship? We can help who we are attracted to through the redeeming work of Christ! We can help how we relate to those around us, both male and female.
I spent many years believing the lie that my cross to bear in life was one of loneliness and self-sacrifice because I was a homosexual Christian who was simply called to remain celibate. What a life of defeat! That is where the loneliness comes from. The Scripture is full of passages describing homosexuality as a past tense event in the life of believer. Paul tells us if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation. God did not create anyone homosexual. We cannot help how we are tempted, but we can help what we do with those temptations when they are exposed to the light and truth of God’s word.
Misty is right, there is a lifetime of relational issues to overcome, there is a worldview that must be radically shifted, there is a root heart issue that must be put to death. If the believer who views themselves as a homosexual continues to view herself as such, she is believing a lie.
1 Corinthians 10.13 says, “No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.” The act of homosexual sex is not the only homosexual sin. Jesus said to lust after a woman is to commit adultery in your heart. Sexual sins have a root issue in the heart. The temptation to identify yourself as homosexual is a temptation to view yourself as something other than what God created you to be.
But these points are nothings that should be launched from a distance at those struggling with SSA. Had someone sat down with me and given me a point by point analysis of this at the beginning of my journey from homosexuality, I would have balked at them and their high and mighty judgmental views. But there were people who were willing to struggle through Scripture with me. They answered hard questions, spent endless hours listening to me vent and self-justify my life. They walked with me as I demanded God prove Himself to be the all-sufficient sustainer.
People struggling with SSA need faithful Christians who are willing to walk with them with all of the grace and mercy and patience of Christ. But those faithful Christians must be equipped with the unwavering truth of who God is and who He created us to be.
[...] article and to several blog comments related to it. Her response has been discussed on numerous blogs as well. This is my response to [...]
Very interesting topic. I’d like to tell you my thoughts, but if I did, most of you would think I am a heretic. I believe there is a genetic disposition. But I will keep the rest of my thoughts about that to myself. Just to say, I understand the lonliness that gay Christians feel. I am a single, middle aged Christian woman and single parent, by divorce. When I hear people tell me about God’s love being enough, over and over, I want to scream. God can do anything, I know, He can fulfill everything for me in my life but one, a close physical relationship with another human being. So that desire, whether it is a homosexual or not, is critical for all people. I am sorry that so many have such a hard line they cannot cross. This has also made me more aware of the lonliness of all people, whatever their age, race, lifestyle, sexual orientation, or socio-economic status.
An Inconvenient Truth
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/04/inconvenient-truth-matt.html
The church continues to be doctrinally arrogant concerning certain sins, and being blind to their own litany of practicing transgressions many use homsexuality as a self righteous piñata. Paul’s self description as the “greatest of sinners” seems to fly in the face of the hierachy of sins theology (unless Paul was gay).
And without a shred of sympathy or understanding many “fundamentalists” revel in lashing out at the gay community. Showing a redemptive spirit to a homosexual seems to strike fear in the hearts of some saints who are both insecure in their own grace and worried about the judgment of others.
People who are born with same sex attractions are obviously conflicted about Christ since the church has so often presented Him as a wall rather than the Door. If a person cannot be saved unless he both recognizes every sin as sin and stops practicing those sins, then no one is saved. Every person who comments on this blog is blind to some of their own sins and continues to practice sin both unknowingly and knowingly.
If the gate called “Grace” is not wide enough for gay people who may never achieve victory then that gate must be called “Law”. If we must give up sins to gain grace then it countermands the core definition of grace. And if a professing believer must show signs of forsaking sins to be called genuine, please tell me how many and which sins can be identified as “threshold”. And also tell me who has the insight to accurately identify who is in and who is out.
And the argument that some of us have experienced the urge to commit sexual sins outside of marriage is incongruous since same sex attractions cannot Biblically be satisfied. No one who is not gay can adequately identify with the depth of their struggle, no one.
It must really irritate the orthodox community when the offspring (Abraham Piper) of one of their heroes gets out of the theological barn and cannot be lassoed back. :)
QUESTIONS
1. Can a person with greed, believe on Jesus through the health and wealth movement, and make doctrinal room for his greed, and practice it and still be a Christian?
2. Can a sinner come to Christ while being a speeding driver and still speed and be a Christian?
3. Can a person who overeats and is overweight, come to Christ and still overeat and be a Christian?
4. Can a person who is lazy come to Christ and still be somewhat lazy and be a Christian?
5. Can a judgmental person come to Christ and still be judgmental and be a Christian?
And please note that in all 5 questions I presume the person still practices those things without any real spiritual disturbance or conviction.
6. Can a homosexual come to Christ and still practice homosexuality and be a Christian?
I have a one word answer for all those questions and that applies personally to all of us.
G R A C E
I would love to have rules and laws for everyone, and I would love to judge all who fall short of my template, and I would love to divide the sheep from the goats by my own perspective, I would love to do those things because it would satisfy my self righteous flesh, but everytime I begin to construct such a framework, grace tears it down.
I need to find a more compromised definition of grace.
Romans 1 is apocalyptically mysterious. While it clearly addressed the sin of homosexual depravity and hints to the root of a type of idolatry–worshiping the created rather than the Creator–it doesn’t give us as much detail as, say the early church’s benevolence ministry (which we can read about in 1 Tim 5).
I’ve been working with the principle that homosexual lust and sin is similar to heterosexual lust and sin. But culturally speaking, I realize that this is a poor first approximation.
Misty Irons is wonderful, a breath of fresh air. Homosexuality is not a sin; hatred toward homosexuals is a sin. Homosexuals are subject to all the sins that heterosexuals are, but they are not sinful by virtue of their homosexuality. They are sinful because they are human. Their sexuality is a gift from God.