Apr 19, 2009
22 Essential Words for Writing Cheesy Christian Pop Songs
A guest post by Joshua Harris
1. Mountain
2. Love
3. River
4. Ocean
5. Amazed
6. Imagine
7. Valley
8. Believe
9. Waves
10. Running
11. Deep
12. Shout
13. Stillness
14. Moment
15. Arms
16. Tears
17. Walk
18. Hills
19. Reaching
20. Waters
21. Joy
22. Peace
…or Max Lucado books
you forgot “just” and “now.” does anybody else realize how much more often christians use those words (in general, but also in lyrics) than other people? haha.
oh, also, some reference to opening one’s eyes, having one’s eyes opened, seeing with the eyes of a child, etc. :]
Definitely forgot “just.”
It makes me CRAZY! It may be nit-picky, but it kills me. Genuinely. “He died just for me.”
What? WHAT? JUST for you? ONLY for you? There was no other goal in the death of God’s only Son? None at all?
Probably overkill on my end, but yeah. :)
So does that mean that “I Could Sing of Your Love Forever” ranks as the cheesiest Christian Pop Song of all time?
Oh my goodness, yes. Drives me nuts. When going through possible additions to our church’s song repetoire for this year, there was so much we just had to toss because of sentimental nonsense that really says so little about God and so much about how in love we are with our idea of being “in love” with Him.
And seriously? “I Could Sing Of Your Love Forever”? Yeah. They sing about how they COULD sing of His love forever. But never get around to “forget[ting] none of His benefits,” unless you count a river and dancing. Enough already.
Your mountains of love
Flow down the rivers to the ocean.
I’m amazed when I imagine
In the valley and believe.
Waves running deep
Shout stillness into the moments
I’m in your arms.
Tears walk down the hills
Reaching waters of joy and peace.
I think zion and clapping should replace waves and reaching.
Drat! Every time I thought I had one that wasn’t on the list . . . I found it on the list. I stand in awe of your thoroughness.
Abraham, that was amazing. We’re singing it this morning!
I showed my wife your song, Abraham, without the context and she thought it was something straight from K-Love radio. Impressive.
Wow, just wow.
I can’t belive you managed to put them all in order.
I alway thought it quite funny singing,
♫ Oh, I feel like dancing -
it’s foolishness I know;
but, when the world has seen the light,
they will dance with joy,
like we’re dancing now. ♫
with our congregation of aged old baptists.
What would be 22 essential words for writing good, biblical, Jesus-exhalting, affection raising, joy inspiring Christian songs?
good question. the good songs would have to use some of the same words.
i think the point is not that songs are cheesy because they use these words, but it is how they use them… (except: waves, imagine, and tears)
Brilliant. I’m forwarding your rendition to our music pastor today. So moving….:)
I’m particularly annoyed with all references to breath, air and wind
How did “heart” not make the list?
How about “I,” “me,” and “feel?” I acknowledge those aren’t always wrong to use, but they are often overwhelmingly in those “cheesy songs” we speak of.
the most annoying cheesy christian pop phrases are:
“i don’t know what to sing”
“but, i have to keep singing”
“give me words”
crap like that.
Most of this foolishness continues because once you slap a “Christian” label on something, many believers think it’s unchristian to question it.
amen to that, daniel kirk.
My point exactly!
http://taralynn819.blogspot.com/2009/01/great-christian-radio-listener-dilemma.html
twentytwowords (the comment edition!)
Imagine running deep waters
Waves rivers oceans
Imagine valleys shouting stillness
Deep mountain moments
Imagine arms reaching reaching
Joyful tears walking amazed
Interesting discussion. I feel a little out of place liking both the songs with a lot of doctrinal substance like Amazing Grace; Holy, Holy, Holy; Crown Him With Many Crowns; Great Is Thy Faithfulness, etc., and the lighter, more emotional songs. When I began attending a church that taught about salvation and that everything in the Bible really happened, I was surprised by those “cheesy” songs. At my former church we all knew that we should love God but it wasn’t a love you could feel.
A couple of songs were especially special to me:
“I keep falling in love with him over and over and over and over again” (repeated a few times) It gets sweeter and sweeter as the days go by, Oh, what a love between my Lord and I…”
Also, “In moments like these, I sing out a song, I sing out a love song to Jesus, In moments like these, I lift up my voice (or hands), lift up my voice to the Lord, singing I love you Lord…”
I’m glad to have been in churches where we have had both.
I understand the criticism that our church songs should not be songs where you can replace the name of Jesus with the name of your girl or boyfriend and it will be a hit on the top 40. Yet I don’t see anything wrong with a song that really expresses love to Jesus.
If the church is teaching the Bible as true and some of their songs are more emotional, I don’t see anything wrong with that. But if the people are just getting pop psychology from the pulpit and songs without much substance as well, that seems more troubling.
Also, since we are on the topic of songs again, it doesn’t seem quite right to say, as some commentors have said, that Arminians aren’t really praising God. I’m not an Arminian, but I was one without knowing it, and I don’t think it’s fair to call someone’s singing praise or not praise based on their misinformation. If a church is teaching that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins and the people respond to that, realizing that they have sinned, and ask forgiveness, the fact that they don’t understand that they were predestined to to experience salvation does not nullify their praise. I see us more as Apollos in the Bible who was a true believer but needed the way of God more accurately explained (Acts 18:26).
One more thing, if you can put up with one more thing from me, can someone explain what is supposed to be wrong with the song “I Am a Friend of God.” I have looked at the lyrics and really don’t see anything in them that is not in the Bible. Didn’t Jesus say to his followers that they were his friends? And doesn’t the Bible talk about having friendship with God and not friendship with the world? It may not go down in history as a classic song, but it doesn’t sound as horrible as some people say it is. I don’t want to start a controversy, but I was just wondering…
I agree that Jesus deserves our best in everything, including songwriting, and certain songs drive me crazy too, but I am disappointed by the self-righteous tone of this thread. Different styles of music appeal to people of varied cultures, intelligence, and background. I think we should be careful criticizing the authenticity of someone’s worship. By the arguments on this thread some of the Psalms could be considered ‘cheesy’.
I think there’s also…
23. hands
24. lifting
25. fire
LOL!!!
Im not sure how this is helpful, we are supposed to encourage and guide one another, not sure how this serves ANYONE.
My husband always jokes about “The Heart of Worship”:
I’m coming back to the heart of worship…
and it’s all about You…
But this song’s about ME, Jesus.”
Rob Leriger, i agree about the dancing bit in i could sing of your love forever. It confused me as a child to see people singing that while standing completely still!
I always believed the Heart of Worship to be a song of repentance. Lord I am sorry for the thing that I made it, I am longing to bring something of worth that will bless your heart. I am coming back to the heart of worship and it is all about you. He goes on to call Jesus a King of Endless Worth and no one could express how much you deserve. Though I am weak and poor all I have is yours, every single breath…
I guess I am confused why this song is all about “me”
Look at some of the great hymns of the past and they use the same words. I guess I don’t understand how you can characterize some of these words as cheesy when in fact most uncheesy songs use these words in good context. We have to be careful when we say a song is horrible or cheesy just because it doesn’t fit our prefrences. Can it be used to glorify God? If so, than that is the most important thing.
things i’ve learned from this post and comments:
1. there are some cranky, cynical, hipper-than-thou christians out there
2. people who don’t like christian love songs probably think celine dion is cheesy, too.
3. celine dion might be cheesy but she still TOTALLY ROCKS. and i’ve also been known to break down weeping while singing “I could sing of your love forever.”
4. who cares if it’s cheesy. if someone comes to christ, does it matter whether it was through Hip Christian Band or Matt Redman? doubt it.
4. so i guess i’m cheesy and uncool, too. THANKS Josh Harris!!!!
Andrew, say something then that is helpful then. Surely you understand the dangers of preaching and songs of no substance.
I find it funny how most people defend the hymns as the deep theological songs, and then turn around and rip on modern, intimate songs because they say that modern songs use the words “I” or “me” to much. But here are the words of the most famous hymn, “Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like ME. I once was lost but now I’m found, Twas blind but now I see” Seems like the focus is way to individualistic according how people condemn modern songs. But the “Heart of Worship” spends its 2 verses focused on God, and then mentions how the worshipper is returning their focus to God and it is too focused on self.
If we look at the Psalms, the majority of them use the words “I” and “me”, so if it was okay for those song writers, I’m pretty sure it is okay for modern song writers also. We are told to compare things to the Scriptures, and music should be able to be supported Scripturally, not based on our own views.
But I enjoyed the list the Josh has put together!
I remember getting a worship leader’s setlist once for me to put together a lyrics slideshow, the songs were “Every Move I Make”, “Let the River Flow”, “I Will Give You All My Worship” (sic), “Open The Eyes of My Heart”, and “Draw Me Close”. The shorthand for the setlist read:
Every
River
Give
Heart
Draw
I commented that those words could make up a song on their own, which the band immediately began practicing: “Every river give heart draw!”
Great post, and very true, but still…
1. Ps. 11:1
2. Ps. 4:2
3. Ps. 36:8
4. Ps. 8:8*
6. Ps. 41:7
7. Ps. 23:4
8. Ps. 27:13
9. Ps. 42:7
10. Ps. 133:2
11. Ps. 36:1
12. Ps. 20:5
13. Ps. 37:7*
14. Ps. 6:10
15. Ps. 18:34
16. Ps. 6:6
17. Ps. 23:4
18. Ps. 50:10
19. Ps. 32:6*
20. Ps. 18:16
21. Ps. 4:7
22. Ps. 4:8
*-not exactly, but similar…
Sorry, I was bored.
It’s okay to like these songs. It’s okay not to like these songs. It’s okay to talk about it. I don’t see how trying to silence someone encourages, guides, or serves.
You can use a list of words from Shakespeare and write bad poetry. You can take a list of words from Scripture and write bad lyrics.
Talking about how you feel about God is okay, but talking about God is more important.
Points above well taken. I’ve thought the same about most of the above songs at one point or another (particularly the reference to “dancing now” in the straightlaced, cessationist Baptist churches that tend to love that song…)
However…that said…these were popular back when I was a youth director at a small church, and the cheesy, boy-band nature of them genuinely helped my dramatic, emotional teenage girls to worship. I remember thinking “better to have them singing this way to God than to Justin Timberlake.”
If these songs help (helped — I think most of the above are dated now) someone along the way perhaps even because of their cheesiness….well, who am I to complain? They were one-hit wonders like their pop counterparts, but for midwestern youth group in the late 90′s, they did what they were designed to do (direct hearts toward God), regardless of the depth they lacked.
This post and comments are not what I expect from 22 words.
I’m sorry. I feel like I was the one who started to put a damper on what was probably intended to be a lighthearted post. So I will add that while I felt compelled to share the thoughts that I did, I have also heard and read enough of Josh Harris to know that his post was probably not meant to be really super critical, but more to point out some trends and possibly show how some words can be overdone?
funny list – I like! It seems to summarise a lot of my church’s music selection…
I am glad that others have a problem with this post. I thought Elizabeth’s phrase “hipper-than-thou” was a valid criticism here. It captures a very real danger in today’s church, namely, finding our righteousness in how culturally relevant we can make our Christianity rather than in Jesus himself.
What about “embrace?”
breathe…
“This is the air I breathe…”
They also use kingdom of God, expiation, triune, shalom, and new covenant soo much. I’m dead sick of them…
[...] http://twentytwowords.com/2009/04/19/22-essential-words-for-writing-cheesy-christian-pop-songs/ Comments (0) [...]
This is good. What about “word”?
The stuff on K Love usually sucks. There are a few good ones, but usually.
Sorry if you like it (Elizabeth Esther) It isn’t wrong to like it. It just isn’t very good music.
I don’t like what is does to non-christians. It has a Romans 2:24 effect. Perhaps you can relate to the feeling by watching this video of a hit Sonseed tune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8
O Worship the King (vs. 6).
O measureless might! Ineffable love!
While angels delight to worship Thee above,
The humbler creation, though feeble their lays,
With true adoration shall lisp to your praise.
May we continue to “lisp to His praise” with ALL the good words He has given!
you forgot virgin and a girl called mary.
[...] This made us smile (do read the comments!) [...]
Where is “Faith”?
Have we lost it?
Oh, and I seem to remember singing about Jesus, and God quite a bit, so surprised they didn’t make it!
I am very uncomfortable singing songs that sing as if I am God… like Mark Schultz’s song “I Am.” I like the song and Mark’s work, but I have to turn the station when I hear that song. I can’t personally sing those words. It feels blasphemous.
And the songs that sing We/I declare you Lord or declare Your glory, or proclaim ……. these are hard, as well. When sung as a group, over and over, it sounds like OUR claiming/declaring/proclaiming makes it authentic. He is God, whether we proclaim it or not. It’s like those bumper stickers: God said it, I believe it, that settles it. Whether you believe it or not … it’s settled.
Thanks for the post. I appreciate the banter … it’s nice to know others share some of the same thoughts.
‘course we could go back to singing the Psalms, which I have found to be a blessing my whole life :)
another reason i love Sovereign Grace Music so much.
Reading this hilarious post and following comments has very much increased my Joy in the Reality that Jesus has gone to prepare a Place for me. In Heaven, you and I will sing, clap, break-dance, and shred out spine-altering guitar solos… without any one feeling offended. Come back quickly Jesus! Eternity is going to be awesome (Oh shoot! Is “awesome” on the list?).
[...] ‘Mountain,’ ’shout’ and ’stillness’ among ‘22 Essential Words for Writing Cheesy Christian Pop Songs’ April 20, 2009 Joshua Harris, guest-posting at 22 Words [...]
in order…
The mountain of your love
flows like a river to the ocean of your grace.
I stand amazed when I imagine
how you carry me through the valley, and I believe.
Waves of mercy running through the deep
of my soul make me want to shout against the stillness of the moment.
In your loving arms I shed the tears that
slow my walk through the hills of your kingdom
I am reaching out to you, I want to savor the
waters of your joy and peace.
(tongue firmly planted in cheek)
I just read the comments, and realized that it really seems I plagarized Abraham’s lyrics, but I didn’t! I guess “great minds” think alike?
(chuckle)
Easy to criticize, hard to do. We’ll look forward to an upcoming hymnal?
What about “raise” or “lift?” Sorry if that has been mentioned, I didn’t read all the comments.
Hello, everyone! I had no idea my silly list would generate so much discussion.
Just so everyone knows I actually wasn’t thinking of worship or praise songs when I put this together. I was thinking of pop songs that I hear when I turn on Christian radio. It just struck me as funny how frequently cliches are used in many of these songs.
Anyway, that’s the inspiration for this list. And I don’t pretend that I could do better.
Have a great day.
I believe that old hymns have more Cross-centered and scatological content than those ‘cheesy’ songs that are mentioned here above.
However, our comments should address song writers and also listeners to consider what is most important and if a song is making me consider what am I singing, and if it’s really praising and worshiping the Lord or just making me “feel” that I am worshiping.
“Scatalogical” Donie? It may certainly be cheesy and even considered bad by some but …. Perhaps eschatological? :)
This really offends me. I will now curl up in the fetal position, hug my Life Application Study Bible, and sing “I Can Only Imagine” until I can no longer imagine.
You ain’t lying.
That’s right Doulos. It was the Spelling Engine who changed the word.
Thanks buddy
Scatological Christian pop songs. Now THAT sounds like something Mark Driscoll would enjoy. :)
How I wish I could hear any of those words in any songs, but I can not hear. And those of you who can hear, quibble.
So I choose to read lyrics.
I have never heard Misty Edwards voice, but two of her songs, “See The Way” and “Glance”, both brought God closer.
My favorite line in See The Way says:
“see the way he holds the stars in his hands
see the way he holds my heart”
I wish I could hear the melody and voice.
Full lyrics here:
http://www.etarg.org/see_the_way.php
And “Glance is worth a full read as far as I can see:
“I remember the first glance
I remember the first romance
I remember the first dance
When I felt in love with You
When I felt in love
I thought that I would never know love
And maybe I thought would that I never touch
But then You came and dwelled in me
I thought that I never rocked me
I’d never known a love like this
Show the truth behind of the mist, mystery”
Here are her songs:
http://www.etarg.org/misty_edwards_lyrics.php
Both “Surrender” and “You Won’t Relent” are worth a read.
If you can hear, they might be worth a listen.
I dunno.
[...] From here: 22 Essential Words for Writing Cheesy Christian Pop Songs « 22 Words. [...]
[...] 22 Essential Words for Writing Cheesy Christian Pop Songs A guest post by Joshua Harris 1. Mountain 2. Love 3. River 4. Ocean 5. Amazed 6. Imagine 7. Valley 8. Believe 9. [...] [...]
[...] in Just For Fun at 9:35 am by kellenreid It seems I’m not the only one criticizing Christian songs. Apparently others find some songs to be cheesy. The link is to a [...]
I probably wouldn’t accurately recognize that something’s cheesy even if David Hasselhoff came up and knocked me in the head.
[...] 22 essential words for writing cheesy Christian pop songs [...]
[...] April 24, 2009 by E1st If you want to write contemporary Christian music, these words are all you need. [...]
How could the word “dance” be neglected in the cheese-list? The word everyone uses as if they were the only one who had ever used it?
Is it because it doesn’t rhyme with “you”, “true”, or “new”?
Dave wrote:
> By the arguments on this thread some of the Psalms could be considered ‘cheesy’.
I would be interested in a post about the 22 words you could use to design a psalm. I’ve kind of felt the same way about Psalm 42′s…
> Deep calls to deep
> at the roar of your waterfalls;
> all your breakers and your waves
> have gone over me.
[...] 22 Essential Words for Writing Cheesy Christian Pop Songs [...]
Hmm.. lots of chatter here.
I find some songs too cheesy, just as I find some people too critical. It is a fine line to draw.
To the person who turns off the radio at Mark Shultz’s “I Am” song – can you read Job aloud? There are times we read and therefore speak what God says, like a quote.
That song is special to me. I first heard it on a day I was really struggling, and I sat that morning by my fireplace frightened and alone. I knew God wanted me to follow Him in one area, but I was scared. I cried as I got in my car and asked Him, “What if I fall, who will catch me? Nobody even knows I am crying.” When I got in my car to go to work, that song came on the radio.
“I AM.”
My point – there is a point in singing what God has said about Himself, just as there is a point in reading what God has said about Himself: to share it with others.
you could add ‘rain’ to all the other frequently used words that refer to moisture. I think thats a common one too.
I find it humorous and interesting how easy it is to make a doctrinal discussion out of a simple observance of the facts. Ok, ok, ‘cheesy’ is a relative term, but it definitely didn’t strike me as a doctrinal one :) However, it did touch on an issue (apparently) that is huge in the church today. The comment thread was interesting to read.
[...] 22 words for Cheesy Christian songs by Josh Harris [...]
I used to be part of the youth group worship band, and we used to refer to these as “Jesus…or my girlfriend” songs :)
You forgot “cry” or “cry out”