May 18, 2009
Jesus Follower, Christians are your family. Are you going to disown them?
Self-applying the term Jesus follower for accuracy or lexical variety is good.
Doing it to distance yourself from other Christians is cowardly.
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Amen.
Amen, agreed. “Jesus followers” who separate themselves from the church need a good dose of the wisdom of Proverb 18:1. Thanks for your consistently concise and satisfactorily succinct posts. Got you on my blogroll over at deekdubberly.com. Hit me up some time.
brilliant.
Not to disown them. But there is perhaps a time/place for separating yourself from American “Christianity” for the sake of winning new family members. An example might be in a Muslim context where being a follower of Jesus can provide a more accurate picture than the term Christianity, especially in areas where there are ethnic “Christians” who are not followers of Jesus.
Provocative point, Abraham.
For those curious and may have never heard this distinction, this short YouTube clip is a good, easy place to get the general idea.
I always get annoyed by that. I find myself thinking, “if GOD won’t disown us, who the heck do you think YOU are?”
I think the american christianity thing is a cop-out. It seems like most do it because it’s cool.
People, for the most part, aren’t fools. They know what you are.
Better to fight to make people see what a REAL Christian look like, rather than just change the word.
In response to those videos that Rob Hulson liked to: I have to admit I laughed at some of the Christian’s stereotypical-ness but just like I see in so much of the emergent church, the “Christ-follower” has a certain self-righteousness about not being self-righteous.
sorry, Rob “linked” to :)
Some families are toxic. Christ set boundaries to be in His family.
The value of appropriate boundaries is documented throughout the Bible, but well established in the choice of disciples.
12 chosen
1 lost and replaced
3 closest
1 beloved
They were all Jesus Followers.
The growing movement to get back to Jesus Follower, instead of Christian, is a recognition of the original church.
The God of the Old Testament ark and temple tore the veil and dwelt in the temple of his people,…each one.
The people are the church.
Christians have a tendency to Follow a Building or Follow a Pastor, many even leaving one building and going with their pastor to a new building.
Jesus Followers are choosing relationship with the Father through Jesus. “Anyone who has seen me knows the Father”
Christians are the growing thousands of fractured denominations, enjoying political power, dogmatic fights, crusades, and sitting in the pew, letting someone else do their relationship with the Father.
Jesus Followers are among the bravest disciples of this generation in the church.
Christians are not cowards;
just “the lukewarm”, letting someone else do their worship, their learning of Christ, their ministry. Their gifts from the Holy Spirit waste in a pew.
Followers are not abandoning the family; they return focus to the parent.
Christians remain Prodigal.
Note that Jesus Followers do not call family members cowards. Labeling is in the domain of the Christian. The world flees from them, for hypocracy to Christ.
Pedophilia
Gospel of Properity (god wants you rich; give me money)
High salaries and staff instead of feeding the poor and hungry.
Christians are mostly Martha and very busy in appearance.
Jesus Followers are mostly Mary and serve Him at his feet as He leads.
Note that it is not a secular blog labelling family members as cowards.
Just another Christian.
Maybe it is time for Christians to become Jesus Followers, as the Father expected.
Sell your massive homes and give to the poor.
Don’t have a prison ministry do your work. GO to prison and minister as you can.
When has a homeless bathed in your bathroom.? Jesus was homeless.
Followers recognize Him. Christians are at Wal Mart, spending on useless items for their home.
I know many Christians.
I know many Jesus Followers.
No axe to grind with either.
But I admire the latter group for doing what Christ came to do, and Following Him.
When I read “Jesus Followers who separate themselves from the church”, I know I have read an anachronism.
Succinct can disguise truth many times.
While I think understand your point, I would respectfully disagree. I would not say that it is cowardly to attempt to reform and re-imagine Christianity. Perhaps it is more bold and courageous?
The trick with titles/terms/religions is that they take on so much baggage. It can be helpful to use new language to communicate more clearly what you are saying – “Christian” is vague, loaded, and often offensive. “Jesus” is often a more powerful image (according to some research).
One final thought: modern Christianity has become “Paul-ism” meaning it focuses on Paul’s writings and interprets Jesus’ teachings through Paul. Stating that one is a “Jesus follower” puts the emphasis back on the Gospels. This is an important distinction.
Just a few “push backs” :)
btw – i think my points are better stated in the original quote: “…for accuracy or lexical variety is good” – sorry if I’m redundant
Danny Lucas: “Christians” are Marthas and “Jesus Followers” are Marys? That’s like saying my finger is Martha and my fingernail is Mary.
Your sanctimonious tone overshadows the fact that Jesus loved and appreciated both Martha and Mary. One was not better than the other.
Remember it was Martha who went out to meet Jesus after Lazarus had died.
Jesus Followers are trying to get back to recognition of the original church? There are true “Jesus Followers” in every denomination, sect, home church and yes, even sitting in pews.
We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Even those of us who (gasp!) own homes.
Call it whatever you want, but a rose by any other name smells as sweet. God knows his own and they know Him; no matter what they call themselves.
I use “Jesus Follower” on my facebook for lexical understanding…because I want people to know I’m not simply part of “cultural Christianity” but that I personally follow Jesus…but I am to never separate myself from other “Jesus Followers, Christians, whatever you want to call the “church” because we are one…we are the “called out ones” Whatever you call us…we are kingdom people who follow Christ…and we do it together.
A Jesus Follower can stop following whenever he wants.
A church member is preserved in an eternal covenant sealed by the Holy Spirit.
AMEN and AMEN to what Zach Trimble said!
I say Jesus Worshiper because of semantics. I keep hearing someone is not “really” a Christian. Flowers blooming red are roses.
Religion became a dirty word, so people say faith. Soon faith will be a dirty word, and another pigeonhole will be needed.
Maybe it isn’t other Christians that the Jesus follower is trying to distinguish himself from? Maybe it is the other 80% of the population that calls itself ‘Christian’ but is not.
It depends where…in some countries (we’ve been in eastern Europe) “Christians” refer to those who are orthodox so true Christians (and missionaries) use the term repenters and sometimes believers. the problem is that while using the term Jesus-follower may be a cop out for some that’s a blanket statement and only god knows the heart. I’m a believer, repenter, Jesus follower and Christian!
@DAvid – You wrote, “A church member is preserved in an eternal covenant sealed by the Holy Spirit.”
2 questions
1 – Does that mean ONLY church members are sealed by the Holy Spirit?”
2 – How do you define “church membership”?
I love it when we agree.
thank you for reminding me.
1. Well, if you’re sealed by the Holy Spirit, you’re a member of the church that Christ died for.
2. For my definition of church member, go to everything Paul said about us being members of one another. Read it, know it, and live out what it says for a while, however imperfectly it appears before you.
I think those terms are both valid. Surely one can use the term “Jesus-follower” without villifying the church. But I agree that I hate people talking about the ills of the church as if it were an entity over which they are so superior and speaking about Christians as if they are not brothers, but just a kind of in-law.
i have a friend who would rather use the term “post-evangelical,” which he admits doesn’t really mean much except “i’m not like THOSE evangelicals,” even though his beliefs are, at the end of the day, the same orthodox beliefs of people who do use the term “evangelical.” i’m not saying you have to introduce yourself to people by saying “hi, i’m an evangelical christian,” but i can’t see what insisting on different terms accomplishes besides saying you’re better than everyone else.
“For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.” (Acts 11:26, ESV) I’m good with that.
I don’t know what it is. Sometimes it’s cowardly, sometimes it’s self-righteous (ironically, of course), sometimes it’s appropriate and good.
How do you distance yourself from other Christians, Abraham? I think everyone has a tendency to do this in one way or another. I’m not saying for you to answer here, but, if I can remember I’ll bug you for an answer later.
Jenna,
I lock my doors, screen my calls, and avoid eye contact.
Plus, when you wear that terry cloth tube top, I’m like, “Maybe he just needs his space today.”
Danny – You’ve built a straw-man; adding baggage to the term Christian, redefining it into submission .
Jesse – Were the Gospels more inspired than Paul’s writings?
Nonsense JoeS.
Above, my point of view is castigated as “sanctimonious” but a selected slice from
Elizabeth Esther defending “Christian” in her own way.
But a simple click on her name makes a revealing point on how we identify ourselves.
She writes:
“I’m Elizabeth Esther…
a follower of Christ, mother of 5 and published writer.”
Given her statement above, I found her personal identification at her site most amusing.
Must be catchy around here.
Joe S defines himself to the world too.
Click his name to see this:
Joe S
Contemporary Worship Leader at Hope Church in Richfield, Guitar aficionado, and devoted follower of Jesus Christ.
Amazing.
Danny –
I don’t think you’re really going to get this … sorry … just the nature of this kind of dialogue.
But people really aren’t objecting to your use of the term “Jesus Follower” — at least not if it were a simple attempt to clear away cultural baggage in particular situations. That’s something I and many others might admire in a limited sense.
What I object to is your actual creation of two categories of persons — “Jesus Follower” and “Christian” — which you use to cut and run, diagnose and distance yourself from members of the body for whom Christ died, setting up instead a “two track” spirituality much like many of the early proto-Protestant movements did.
In your words:
I know many Christians.
I know many Jesus Followers.
I just find that whole line of thinking and spiritual orientation dangerous and distasteful.
Sure, not all who say to Him, “Lord, Lord” will be saved, but for God’s sake, “Let both grow together until the harvest” as He commanded.
Danny, 22 words limits my ability to flesh out my ideas and give all the needed details (I even had to ignore using names in order to make it 22 words).
While you say that you have no axe to grind with either group, you separate the Church (or those claiming to be in the Church) into two mutually exclusive groups, then place your own definitions (along with some well earned baggage from outside) on each, suggesting that those who call themselves Christians are like this (mostly negative), while those who call themselves Jesus Followers are like that (mostly positive). I call myself a Christian, but like Zach Trimble said, I used the term “devoted follower of Christ” to differentiate myself from mere cultural christianity.
I find your differentiations more suited to Christians vs Hypocrites, or Jesus Followers vs Hypocrites.
Right on, brother.
Not to all the comments, which are too many to read, but to your post.
Excellent.
This is not exactly the same thing. In some circles, I find myself wanting to say:
“Evangelicals, (people who identify themselves as) Fundamentalists are your family. Are you going to disown them?”
Ouch and amen, Abraham. Very well said.
Myrddin,
I will agree with your critique.
The two groups, Followers and Christians are NOT mutually exclusive.
I could have worded my contention better.
However, a growing number of people are leaving church in buildings and meeting as followers or online via humongous numbers of blogs. It is a radical movement and change from our typical established church that has attendance on Sunday.
That group invariably calls themself Jesus Followers, and do so for a reason. They do not want to invest in parking lots, staff, buildings, but do want the Gospel made known. Link to one online and you will follow new links for the rest of your life, there are so many.
House Church is another movement away from the traditional.
Followers tends to be their title, not Christian.
Joe found my thought a strawman and I debated that as well. But I will stick with my comment on that issue, for these Followers of which I refer are NOT at all cowards, but very brave individuals shaking off much religiosity and churchianity, to refine the message as it originated.
Having read many of thse blogs , I find insight into their views and admire their approach to making God come alive for themselves and others.
To the extent any of my word choices have offended any in this audience, I apologize sincerely.
I suspect I should have let it go with Christ proclaiming: “Follow Me” and not proclaiming “Be Christian”.
3,500 current denominations now exist and the number is expected to increase to 5,400 in ten years. There is a lot of “family disowning” going on in the Kingdom.
All proclaim to be Christian.
All proclaim to be Jesus Followers.
My reference is to none of these, but to the groups that are walking away from traditional church, feeling it hampers their relationship to Christ rather than elevate it.
They want to simply be Jesus Followers.
I happen to believe they are NOT cowards at all.
John Bevere wrote “The Bait of Satan” and proclaims in it that the number one tool of satan is getting people to take offense.
It divides and separates.
My apology is directly related to preventing that “offense taking” from growing roots.
I have no desire to aid satan as a Christian or as a Jesus Follower.
Please take no offense at my opinions.
I am just as guilty.
When advised I have a “sanctimonious tone”, I fell for the bait, hook-line-and-sinker and took offense.
Time in prayer has allowed me to release that bait.
Forgiveness from this audience for any unknown offense created, will release the balance of satan’s bait, set to hook this day.
God bless you abundantly.
Danny Lucas: yep, you got me! I’m a follower of Christ! Or a Christian. Or a Jesus Follower. Or a Follower of the Way.
Glad we got that all cleared up! ;-)
I’m one up on you all. I’m a Baptist, just like the forerunne to Jesus.
Amen. however, the “c” has some baggage and needs some unpacking at times.
Oh dear. Apparently yet another verbiage based issue in the body of Christ that I was unaware of! …and I just figured out what side of the emergent church thing I’m on.
Is the “Jesus follower” designation related to the “Jesus only” groups?
Not a problem for me – I’m Messianic!
[...] it out here. Posted by Lauren Filed in Uncategorized ·Tags: referrals, websites No Comments [...]
Both meanings are good but gosh, this debate in and of itself sure seems to divide the family. Energies -> Kingdom. United = stronger. Much?
“I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.” John 17:23
Love to you all, whatever you are :-) x
[...] May 19, 2009 in Church, General | Tags: Christianity, Jesus, Piper, pretense, words This is arguably the best quote I’ve read in weeks, so I thought I’d share it tonight. It comes courtesy of Abraham Piper at 22 Words: [...]
Wow what a heated topic!
For those of us hoping to do cross cultural work in “closed” places the distinction may be important.
Religion no matter how religiously followed never saved anyone. If I may use the distinction, I think Jesus Followers and “Christians” alike can generally agree that Relationship is the ONLY way to be saved! I don’t want to be cowardly but I do want to remove religious trappings that could impede the hearer.
But ultimately, since its God alone who brings “the light of the knowledge of the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ,” I needn’t become too focused on semantics.
Agree. Nuanced enough to be generally true.
[...] Thabiti Anyabwile liked Star Trek. Me too. Really good, surprisingly faithful. Abraham Piper says it’s what you mean when you say it. Proud and divisive, or the facts? This entry was posted on Friday, May 22nd, 2009 at 6:00 am. [...]
[...] Jesus Follower, Christians are your family. Are you going to disown them? [...]