Oct 14, 2009
To believe that all swearing is wrong, you also have to believe that our culture is right.
Social customs define what’s taboo. Therefore, saying taboo language is uniformly sinful implies that our social customs uniformly align with God’s will.
For clarification. Would that mean that you believe the intent and heart behind the swearing is where sin can occur?
If so I don’t disagree, I’m just clarifying.
That’s one helluva bold statement.
nice.
ha!
Maybe Purgatorio can wake up now and add another bold statement.
“He who forbids what God allows will soon allow what God forbids.” – R.B. Kuiper
Good thoughts.
Does the argument that we are not supposed to be “of the world” work for this? If swearing is considered offensive and not what “Christians do” then wouldn’t we be identifying ourselves as one or the other if we swear frequently and/or publicly? Maybe not…I don’t know that I would call swearing a sin…unless you are trying to rebel against God…at least in your heart.
Well put.
I tend to want to fight this battle more than I probably should with those who believe the contrary, however.
Huh? I don’t get it. Psalms 10:7- “The wicked man’s mouth is full of curses and lies and threats…”
I can wrap my mind around this by thinking about hand gestures- how in some societies/cultures, flipping off someone is done using what we’d consider a benign gesture in our own culture. But I’m not sure I get it regarding language.
aren’t language (or dialect) and hand gestures equally relative to culture?
yes
in our host culture the finger, profane in America, is fun and games; no wicked heart behind it.
but
if you point your heal at someone, you totally profane them; meaningless in America.
If it doesn’t mean the same thing in another culture, then it’s not swearing/cursing in that culture.
But whatever it is, if it is swearing in that place, it is wrong.
I still haven’t seen the light. I agree that a swear word in and of itself isn’t sinful, but the sin is in directing anger at someone or at God. In my mind, if an act or comment offends someone and doesn’t glorify Christ, then it’s sin. I’m probably being too straight-forward on this one.
Not all culture is right but it can detect some truth. Profanity takes something that God created (sex, parts of our body, our speech, God Himself…) and devalues it.
Emily,
I think the point is somewhat made by using the verse you cited. What are the “curses”? Is it the same as the “curses” we think of?
Also, Paul said he counts all things as “rubbish” compared to Christ… that’s not what you find in a trash can! It’s another can…
I love where your head’s at Abraham. Keep up the good work.
I also have to echo Tristan, “I tend to want to fight this battle more than I probably should with those who believe the contrary, however.”
Gotta keep searching for the balance.
Bingo.
My husband grew up in a 75% Mormon community as a Baptist kid. Culturally swearing for him is only psuedo-swearing for me (I’m a navy vet). It’s a lot of freaking and shoots and dangs. I find it endearing and cute.
Wearing a blue dress shirt to church is rebellious in this town.
I’m not certain that anyone has established the validity of the initial premise; i.e., that social customs define what is taboo. What’s the authority for that statement? Not necessarily disagreeing, just want to make sure I understand where this comes from. BTW, I’m a guy whose daughter lectured him just this past weekend about watching my language around her two sons… gave me a whole list of words I shouldn’t use.
Is Webster a good enough authority? Social customs dictating what is taboo is the very definition of the word.
Frankly, I’m probably not as impressed with your authority as you might expect. In matters not involving how I can live a life that most honors my Savior, I’d be very content with your appeal to Webster, but was hoping for something a little more substantial in this case. Still, if that’s all you’ve got, I understand.
I don’t get the whole “my favorite interpretation of Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic Scriptures has more bearing on the true meaning of particular English words than English dictionaries do” argument.
“Taboo” means something. “Immoral” means something. One is culturally based, the other is theologically based.
The question is not whether Abraham’s definition of “taboo” is correct, but whether the implied list of words is merely “taboo language” (as opposed to also being “immoral language”).
If we’re going to honor God with the way we conduct ourselves, we need to understand the difference between what God expects of us, and what man expects of us. Confusing the two leads to many (if not most) of the sinful behaviors that plague mankind.
*high fives*
Very interesting take. I hear you.
The way I take it is that cursing someone is a sin. Damning someone or saying F you would fall into that category. Using F to describe a sexual act is repugnant to me, though I’m not sure if it is sinful. Other cussing I have no problem with.
I agree here. I also agree with Abraham. I think there’s a balance between condemning the use of certain words as “sinful” and being offensive or rude to others. The Bible is pretty clear on how we should treat others.
Great post.
And given the evolution of language, words that were once deemed offensive by a culture can lose their taboo over time.
I would argue that if a word’s direct purpose is to demean or defile, then it should be considered a curse word. (Ex- certain words to describe homosexuals, african-americans, women, etc. would fall under this category).
Given my definition then I’d have a hard time saying that a word like “sh-t” is a swear word. It’s lost most of it’s offensive connotation and is now a pretty commonplace word that describes that same thing as “garbage”, “poop”, or “crap” (all words that most Christians wouldn’t have a problem saying).
But I’m guessing they’ll be more than a few people on here that will disagree. ;-)
I have to strongly disagree with you Jared. Maybe you haven’t heard, but many Northwestern College students have popularized the unsinful version of that word, frequently saying “tish” as in, “Get that tish outta here!”
You’ll notice that the sinful word has been de-sinful-ized by rearranging the letters of the original, wicked word.
(For those who don’t know me, I’m being sarcastic, I have many friends who go to Northwestern, and I think it is a fine school.)
Actually, I think that s*** has gained more taboo in recent years. My grandmother (who wouldn’t dream of cussing) says it on a regular basis.
And I agree with the rude words to describe other people. If it’s derogatory, don’t say it.
Are you kidding me? We all know what curse/swear words are. To try and justify using them is like saying “What can I get away with and still not sin.
Christians cursing? Check your heart. For what reason would you curse?
Oh..and ‘rubbish’ is dung. Just like the dung that was burned with sacrifices. Dung, excrement, fecal matter, poop, etc. Why is it necessary to think Paul cursed here?
If our words are tools that we use to either glorify or dishonor God, then we should take care how we use them. Giving power to a certain set of words seems to tend toward legalism, which would be fine with the world but not honoring to God.
I think the sin is in wasted words, whether they are considered “swear” words or not. You can speak strongly and have the full intention of those words behind it. Having our words “seasoned with salt” isn’t always saying the safest thing.
Finally, there’s this little swearing story: My children were playing across the street from our house at the park and came home breathlessly.
“That man said the ‘S’ word!” my daughter reported.
“Really?” I asked.
“Yes! (as she lowered her voice) He said ‘stupid’!”
The Bible does mention the F-word.
Matthew 5:22
Agreed.
It’s both. If our heart’s desire is to cuss, but we verbally say, “oh shoe!” then we are still cussing even though it’s culturally acceptable. Our heart isn’t in the right place.
On the flip side, if we’re walking down the street and see a dog pooping and say, “look at that s***,” our intention is not to curse, but that’s the way society sees it. That would still not be acceptable.
It’s whats on your heart when you say it that defines it as bad language. Aany form of “what the (#$$@/shoe/fudge/etc)” shows your heart is not centered on Christ – I don’t care how you end it.
Not necessarily. God may have told us to not use taboo language in our culture, irrespective of whether that be right or wrong.
I don’t think he did though.
1 Timothy 3:2,7
2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Looking at the “reputation with those outside the church” angle in verse 7, I can see how societal norms can dictate what is permitted in this regards. However, it is then difficult to show yourself to be temperate, prudent and/or respectable as seen in verse 2.
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
This just frames the discussion; it doesn’t give a list of words that are OK. The Bible uses strong, sometimes offensive language in order to shock people into reality. I can see that being appropriate, like when John Piper said a couple of years ago that sometimes God “kicks our ass.” (I know he apologized; I sort of wish he hadn’t.)
Agreed. I wish he wouldn’t even have regretted (I’m not sure if he apologized) when, in a sermon, he said, “All you do is bitch!” I thought that word hit the nail on the head.
I wouldn’t want to see his inbox after saying that in a sermon though.
Abraham, I think that I know where you are going, but you have a huge logical fallacy right from the start.
What might that be? You can’t just say something is illogical without reasons supporting that claim.
Jerry, I think that I know where you are going, but you have a huge logical fallacy right from the start.
Social customs define what’s taboo
You then say that social customs might be wrong in what they define as taboo
therefore
social customs do NOT define what’s taboo
have I missed something?
I don’t think you missed something. It is just that we have a lot of different social customs butting up against one another. Think micro-societies all living together.
“It’s whats on your heart when you say it that defines it as bad language. Aany form of “what the (#$$@/shoe/fudge/etc)” shows your heart is not centered on Christ – I don’t care how you end it.”
Best point thus far from @David. That really goes for anything in life.
Times like this when I love going to BBC
Just try letter cussing instead. http://www.burnsidewriterscollective.com/general/2006/11/on_swearing_hey_mfer_read_this.php
That was hilarious!
I don’t know how this fits into the discussion, but every time I try to lead “What Child is This?” at Christmastime, I giggle uncontrollably when I sing “where ox and ass are feeding,” even though I know it’s not cussing.
They never have the little kids sing that verse for some reason…*giggles*
I wasn’t raised around people who cussed. But when I got out into the real world, nobody had to tell me which words were bad. I could tell by the way they were said.
I don’t know what all has been said, but I do know that God’s Word says to be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone…
Can you be certain that social customs only define what is taboo as opposed to discovering what is taboo?
Sort of. Except most “swear words” in our culture are considered “swear words” because, for whatever reason, they have come mean something obscene. Ephesians 5:4 tells us not to use obscenities. Therefore, using those words = sin.
I will never understand why some people believe that God suddenly becomes aghast when some one switches from saying “crap,” to “Sugar Honey Ice Tea.”
I can understand why it’s not a great idea to run around saying it anywhere, but I cannot understand the weight of moral condemnation associated with it. Seems absurd.
Abraham,
You know how to rouse a good tussle. Nothing gets Christians dander up more than a debate about liberty and convictions.
My take: not a big issue. I get worked up though when people our age use things like language (drinking, movies, music, dress) to distinguish their high level of Christian evolution, i.e. “I’m a highly developed Christian because I can swear (drink, watch R rated movies, dance, wear jeans to church.) I’m all for liberty, but not as a judge of your place in sanctification. This is a tough one for people our age.
hm, yeah, i don’t know. i have come to see swearing as “okay” when used in certain ways, and there are other uses when i just can’t imagine a child of God talking that way. but it’s hard to try to impose my convictions on the subject on others when i’m not even so sure about them.
i know that every language/culture has “bad words,” but i wonder they’re always as “bad” as Americans traditionally have viewed them. i can’t believe that swearing is on God’s Most Hated list, yet i’ve lied to my mom’s face way more times than i’ve ever said or thought the F-word. kinda weird, really.
So define ‘Our Culture’. Whose culture are you claiming is right? In America there is a percentage of the population that sees swearing as taboo – another percentage doesn’t believe anything is wrong with it. I think the former is becoming the minority and the latter the majority. So who is right, by your comment?
We are a melting pot of hugely different cultures living streets apart from one another. Living rooms apart from one another. My 18 year old has grown up in a home where we never use that language, and yet his high school hallways and the circle of friends are immersed in it. It’s hard not to absorb it. The friend he has over right now, grew up in a ‘religious’ home where the F word was common place. They are ‘christian’ and find nothing wrong with it.
I disagree, I think.
you are saying what you are saying because it is swearing; that is wrong. I worked with an Indian woman who would often whisper sh*t under her breath, but it was not a swear word in her language nor was it intended to be one.
How do you know she didn’t intend it to be a swear word? The only reason I would choose to whisper “merde” under my breath would be to swear. (Picked another language at random.) If she weren’t swearing, why whisper? Or was it another word in her language that she muttered over and over at random? Seems doubtful to me. . .
Many swear words refer to either vulgar acts (in which case I see no use for them whatsoever), or actually calling a curse on the object of one’s frustration (in which case they should certainly not be used casually).
Besides those, though, I think there are plenty of reasons for Christians to respect and cultural taboos. Paul speaks to this kind of thing in 1Cor 8:9-12 and 9:22, making sure we don’t allow our liberty to become a stumbling block to others. Whether or not you consider “swear words” to be a bona fide sin, I see little to be gained from using them, but significant potential for offense and confusion.
That being said, I think that when in doubt on issues of speech, always pull back. While we could make a reasonably good case for the permissibility of certain words, for my own heart’s sake, I don’t want to push the envelope on that front. I’ll gladly stick to neutral words like “oops” and “oh no” and “very mean lady”.
I would much rather avoid some words I could legitimately say, than say whatever I wanted and later find out I went too far.
Correction: “…for Christians to respect cultural taboos…” (no “and”)
Sorry to get in on the discussion so late. I’m a church planter in Quebec, Canada. I live inbetween 3 cultural forms of swearing: American, Quebecker (in French), French (from France).
Generally, vulgar language is some based on some kind of backlash. So in the U.S., must swearing (or vulgar language), is sexually-based. This makes a lot of sense concerning the American Puritan heritage.
In Quebec, most swearing (or vulgar language) is based on the Catholic church. The most offensive words all have to do with different aspects of the Catholic mass. Very little “swearing” in Quebec has anything to do with anything sexual. (Not to say that it is not a popular topic in Quebecker society).
When I am in Quebec, amongst pastors, many words are often used that are considered vulgar either in the U.S. or in France. However, they are not vulgar in Quebec. However, language that is considered vulgar in Quebec is not used in Christian circles.
These rules all change in the U.S., because of the cultural stigmas attached to this form of language. So I respect the cultural stigmas in each culture, not to push as far towards liberty as I can, but not to apply rules from one culture into another. Doing that would result in tri-cultural legalism. Not a very exciting prospect.
Just as I wouldn’t try to apply 19th century English-propriety onto 20th century Germany. I’d be offended at ridiculous things constantly.
There is a second kind of swearing in western culture, though, that is more than just vulgar language. It has to do with a specific rebellion against God Himself. This is where I see “taking the Lord’s Name in vain” as applying.
Though it may be acceptable in each culture, it is simply an outgrowth of that culture’s rebellion against it’s Creator. I want to have no part in that.
I know someone who uses the name Jesus in anger. This profanes a sacred name. He should say s*** or f*** instead.
I’d rather play it safe and steer clear of our culture’s taboo words. I wouldn’t want my little children uttering “swear” words, so why would I want to use them? Also, I find it interesting that many, many Christians use words like “gosh”, “gee”, “geez” (“jeez”). According to the dictionary, these are all “euphemisms” for God and Jesus. I know that people probably aren’t meaning to use them in that way, but the dictionary does define them.
http://www.merriam/webster.com/dictionary/gosh
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jeez
Just a thought.
oops.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gosh
Is ooops a euphemism for feces?
I’ve just plowed my way through all of the messages above…and to summarise my thoughts!
1. Legalism – NO
2. Holiness – YES
3. Being a blessing to others – YES
“And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it ALL in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” Col 3v17
I agree Abraham. Wrote an essay during our church’s discussions of Ephesians to dig at this biblicaly, philosophically and culturally.
http://www.powerofchange.org/blog/2009/8/1/watch-your-mouth.html
The issue is not one of God’s will lining up with our culture, but of our culture lining up with His will. Show me where swearing is a necessary means of glorifying God and demonstrate your statement.
How is swearing morally defensible? Perhaps some culturally taboo things are morally defensible (defense of the unborn and things of that nature) but swearing? Really? I can not understand why it is something to stand apart from the world on. Our culture (every culture) actually draws a moral line with speech and we step over it. For what?
Maybe our culture is right. Even the Bible instructs us to live holy lives, to speak for edification of others and that the tongue is a window of the heart. It also tells us not to let unwholesome words come out of our mouths.
“To believe that all swearing is wrong, you also have to believe that our culture is right.” I would add the word “sometimes”. And yes, our culture is sometimes right and, sometimes, “right” is dictated by culture. This applies to the culture of clothing as well: In some places it would be immodest for a woman to show her legs but a shirt would be optional. Here, it would be different. It just would. That is the effect culture has.
Do I think you can lose your salvation over it? No.
Do I think it is morally defensible. Not likely.
All swearing may be wrong but not all things Taboo are cuss words.
And, since your conclusion only follows because of the careful and specific wording of the premise, I can’t say that I disagree. But then no one really could. Trouble is, who thinks that way in the first place?
I’m not even gonna discuss whether swearing is right or wrong…. all i’m gonna say is that your statement is a massive generalisation….. you don’t have to believe our culture is right in order to believe swearing is wrong. There is much more to our culture than just swearing!… You can easily believe our culture is wrong on a whole lot of things, yet still think swearing isn’t right….. for reasons un-related to culture… such as what the Bible says about how we use our tongue. I can’t be bothered to argue whether swearing is right or not, you’ve discussed that enough already…. i was just wondering how you can make such sweeping statements…..
I believe this statement is true. I believe it is true for ALL words not just swear words. When I look at the time when Moses struck the rock instead of talking to it, it makes me think about the fact that God is judge of ALL of my thoughts, motives & actions. What is the intention behind anything I say OR do? I need to be conscious of Him in all matters not just when I am speaking.
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Phil.4:8
Abraham, first I just want to say: F- You. You’re cool!
Second, please define taboo language.
Third, please biblically define unwholesome language.
This will help understand your statements.
All people were given a conscious from God, which is to remind you of God’s standard, let’s you know right from wrong. Therefore all cultures know that swearing and cussing is wrong.
the TNIV, translates 2 Kings 18:22 as
But the commander replied, “Was it only to your master and you that my master sent me to say these things, and not to the people sitting on the wall—who, like you, will have to eat their own excrement and drink their own urine?”
The far more revered King James Version renders it thusly:
But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?
these should add to the debate.
Who decided that the word “f**k” was offensive language and that the word “fornicate” is acceptable? I grew up in North America speaking English, as an adult I took up missions abroad and have now lived on the African and European continents, having learned several new langauges. And experience shows me that just stepping in to a culture, it’s not always clear cut which words are considered offensive. I had to teach myself to be offended at the receiving of certain vocabulary.
What we call swearing can and should be broken down into three categories: profanities, vulgarities, and obscenities. The first group I would consider a sin, the others can be just bad taste as defined by the culture.
I most certainly and absolutely agree with the post author.
I have been having this discussion with my husband since before we were married. You managed to say in 22 words what I couldn’t sum up in four years. Very well said.
I’m fairly certain you needed more than 22 words to convey what you meant… cuz i’m not sure i get it.
I’m a fan of the idea that if we’re using speech that our society deems taboo/bad/inappropriate, our usage of these words isn’t painting a good picture of Christ in us… or it’s painting a bad picture of Christ.
Good and bad change depending on culture, so good and bad things/ words/ actions are different in each culture. When in Rome, operate under Rome’s social norms as long as they align with God’s expectations (Right/ wrong, which don’t change.)
Freedom in Christ means there are no rules. But God gives us a mind either to glorify Him or cleverly justify selfishness.
Culturally taboo language does not sound so bad. And I don’t “have” to believe anything. There, now I feel much better.
First, I want to say right up front that I did not read every comment to this post. There were way to many, and I got tired of having offensive words brought to my mind. I just wish that more Christians would think of Christian liberty in terms of this: because of the freedom I have in Christ, I am free to leave behind those things which might be offensive to others. I am free because of Christ, and out of a heart of extreme and radical gratitude, I desire to do nothing that might dishonor my Lord and God Who saved me. I still sin, sometimes even deliberately and rebelliously, but the Holy Spirit convicts me of this sin. So, in terms of the culture, if something is offensive to me (cursing or flipping someone off), I avoid doing it. If something is offensive to the culture around me (showing my heel, etc), I do not knowingly do it. If something is offensive to my Lord, especially because of a selfish or ungrateful attitude of my heart, I need to especially avoid that.
And freedom in Christ does not mean that there are not rules. Freedom in Christ means we have been freed from death to righteousness and are now able to please God. One cannot read the New Testament without seeing instructions to put off and put on — this could certainly be interpreted as rules. The difference is that we are now ABLE to put off and put on through God’s grace, whereas before salvation we were unable.