Nov 30, 2009
Is your “freedom in Christ” just a list of rules with slightly broader standards?
Christian drinkers defending themselves often mention “wine with dinner.”
Exchange wine and dinner for categorically similar nouns:
Beer for breakfast.
Still acceptable?
acceptable and delicious
Amen!
In my practice and that of friends whose practices I am familiar with, we tend towards celebrating together and including alcohol in those celebrations (Sunday dinner, holidays, etc.) and not forcing the issue at other times just because we have freedom to choose an alcoholic beverage. For me, beer for breakfast would be akin to saying that I am controlled by a substance, since I’d rather eat an apple and have some eggs (with which I don’t like the taste of beer). Beer for breakfast is more of an oddity because of the setting. That’s my 2 cents.
I’d have a pint (or two) with my Eggs and Bacon, for sure! Beer for Breakfast. I think you’re on to something here.
Hmm…when people say they have “wine with dinner,” the implication is that they’re not drinking to get drunk. But in our culture, beer in the morning means you’re probably addicted.
“Wine with dinner” is another way to say “I only have alcohol in small quantities at culturally acceptable times.”
I noticed someone using this phrase recently as well, as I was having a delicious port for dessert.
This statement could mean a few things, including:
1. “I only have alcohol in small quantities at culturally acceptable times. God made it and is good.”
2. “I’m not enslaved to alcohol and I’m going to make sure you know how holy I am.”
3. “I can enjoy alcohol because my faith is greater than yours, ha!”
Uh, yes.
Yet, so says the 6’7, 260 lb man who can never get drunk from beer.
Have I had beer at breakfast with a good hardy meal? Of course. Do I do it all the time? Far less often than having holiday dinners or even steak.
These are great things to be enjoyed by God. For myself, I don’t want to overindulge. So the one time a year that I have steak or the one time a year, “hey a beer would go perfectly with this breakfast”, I do it and dwell on goodness of God.
Here is my favorite beer for breakfast story: coming back from South Africa through Ethiopia. However we miss our connecting flight in Addis Ababa to Rome. We instead connect to Frankfurt to catch a Lufthansa flight.
All in the middle of the night. Dead tired and sleepy. And my connecting flight had me in the worst possible seat on the plane where I had do this fetal crouching position and bear that for 4 hours.
We are in first class for all the rest of the trip so we had access to the exclusive airport lounges. We get to Frankfurt and drop into the Lufthansa lounge. For this guy who hadn’t slept all night and just got done doing about 12 hours of flight time, it was a welcome sight. Lo and behold, there was a bar and patrons enjoying beer. I pull up and ordered one. That was the best tasting, most delicious breakfast I have ever had ever. I praise God for that beer.
The rest of the trip I got to chat with a Jewish doctor from Israel (he was fascinated that a Gentile Christian would have any interest in the Hebrew language of the Old Testament). Even better, I got to sleep on the plane laying totally flat. But that beer, gift of God, made the entire trip from South Africa to Dallas, wonderful.
Acceptable to whom?
To me, yes.
To God, I think, yes.
To those whom Christian drinkers are making their defense, no.
I think the reason they say wine with dinner is because they want to distinguish it from heavier drinking, or drinking in bars. Not that it is wrong to drink at a bar.
Freedom in Christ is always restricted by conscience. Different people will have different feelings regarding their conscience. So someone who feels free to drink wine with dinner, may equally feel unfree to drink beer with breakfast. Since this is an individual thing, standards will shift and vary depending on who you are talk with. It only becomes a “list of rules” when you impose them on others.
The main issue should never be “our” freedom, but love for our brothers. If a Christian brother does not drink and feels it violates his conscience, he should not judge those who for whom imbibing alcohol does not violate their conscience. Likewise, the drinkers should not judge non-drinkers or flaunt the fact that they drink. It’s unhelpful and above all, unloving. And unloving is definitely a prohibited activity.
LOVE this! “And unloving is definately a prohibited activity.” I’m using that one!
Also, I have found that I very much prefer my alcohol not at a meal. To me, alternating between swig of beer (or wine) and bite of food is like alternating between jumping in a hot tub, and jumping in the pool over and over.
That’s a wonderful comparison.
what? hot tub and pool are a GREAT “pairing!”
Only if it is a Lienenkugel Berry Weiss, a perfectly acceptable substitute for juice.
Very true.
Gotta admit, I have never even thought about a beer for B’Fast. Beer and eggs sounds like the perfect storm of intestinal gas though…I’M just saying.
Whisky with lunch.
Bit of a faux pas I think.
Lets be honest, doing the right thing is far more complicated than ‘abstain’ or ‘indulge’. Alcohol communicates lot about a person. How much you drink, why and with whom.
My freedom in Christ says that I can enjoy a nice pint of real ale with some friends at the pub (I’m British), but it still limits me to just one or two. Freedom in Christ is freedom from the social pressures that say ‘more more more’.
Freedom in Christ is freedom to Christ is freedom FOR Christ.
I figure hey, it’s noon somewhere.
i can pretty much guarantee it’s not noon anywhere at this moment…but that’s a whole different topic.
A fuzzy navel with breakfast sounds good. :-)
Interesting question, Abraham. As is often the case, the question makes me quite curious as to your own thoughts on the matter. The way it’s worded gives the impression you think perhaps not. Are you going to comment, or are you just forcing us to think?
I personally would not drink beer for breakfast, but that is not because I think it is wrong, but because it is not a taste I would appreciate for breakfast. I prefer my beer after a bunch of hot work in the summer on that back porch or sitting with a bunch of friends talking.
Assuming responsibility and moderation and all that, is beer for breakfast that different than, say, lasagna for breakfast? It’s culturally abnormal.
If wine with dinner is acceptable then beer with breakfast is fine too.
Beer FOR breakfast might be a different matter.
You might be onto something. Drinking on an empty stomach does affect a person differently than drinking with food.
Short answer: yes. Long answer: absolutely.
What?!? You indulge in sinful meals like breakfast!!!! *unsubscribe*
Just kidding. Me, I’m the kind of guy who uses whiskey to brush is teeth, so if someone want so sip rubbing alcohol during brunch, who am I to judge?
I like to have mimosa’s with breakfast on rare occasions. Freedom in Christ doesn’t equal getting smashed as some of my fellow college friends might contend.
I only have beer with breakfast if that breakfast is fish & chips.
Which, sometimes it is.
am i the only one who noticed you’ve made a crucial change in the preposition as well? beer FOR breakfast is different than beer WITH breakfast. i’d be worried if somebody had wine FOR dinner. ;]
but seriously, it’s kind of a straw man, isn’t it? “wine with dinner” isn’t usually a rule but an appeal for socially responsible drinking—something lots of people do harmlessly. “beer for breakfast” isn’t really that.
You aren’t the only one that noticed. I came over to comment to point out that exact same thing.
“With” does not equal “for.” Had you said “beer with breakfast,” the conversation might have looked very different.
There’s nothing wrong with having beer for breakfast, however I find myself checking to see if it’s past noon whenever I have a hankering for a mid-day libation. If it’s not past noon, I’ll wait until 12:00.
I’m not sure why I do this. Is my personal rule pharisaical if I don’t impose it on anyone else and understand that it had no biblical/moral basis?
Is Liquor for Lunch also game?
No difference between wine with dinner or beer with breakfast. As long as there is no drunkenness, there is no sin.
Yet we must be so careful. While all foods and beverages have their nutritional benefits and possible harms (protein which is good for us and bad cholesterol which is harmful, for example), alcohol is something we consume that not only affects our nutrition, but our judgment and behavior. I’m thankful that I can drink, but most often it seems better not to since everything we do is an example to others and I have no idea how alcohol might affect one of my children or students or their friends. They may choose to drink or not to, but I’d rather that if they do they are not encouraged to by my example.
Yep.
Liquor for Lunch is my favorite one of the Magic Treehouse books.
Oh…no wonder I couldn’t find it at the library…I was looking for Libations at Lunchtime. Silly me.
Like a bunch of other people have said, beer (or anything alcoholic, I think) FOR breakfast is one thing, WITH it is another. Personally, the idea sounds kinda gross to me, but I’d take a mimosa in place of that beer… :)
It is as you said. All of your responders are defending their drinking. Their “freedom in Christ” rules do come with broader standards.
Similar to cigarettes vs. cigars within the church culture.
smoking cigars- respected activity for the contemplative and intelligent.
smoking cigarettes or chewing- filthy redneck slob activity.
Not if you lived in the house full of theology grad students I used to.
or if you go to my church
Great question. I’ll be addressing this issue all week on my blog.
I say, crack open the Coors with your eggs.
Breakfast of champions… and followers of Jesus. :-)
Not for me. But not because I think Jesus hates alcohol before noon. It’s just unpleasant.
Warning against self-righteous hypocrisy taken, though.
Champagne with breakfast. Totally different concept? The question is intriguing. I drink champagne, beer, wine, and even hard liquor, and still believe I have a savior who loves me and died for me and will greet me in heaven. But “broader standards?” Guess so. I happen to think that having a checklist that I hold myself and others to amounts almost to being a Pharisee.
I’m editing myself. “Broader standards” would indicate that perhaps the boundaries were loosened/stretched. If it’s still MY standards, or what I consider appropriate, then I would say no to the question. Freedom in Christ to me means exactly that – true freedom. Fortunately he did give us brains and consciences and the ability to love. I see that as almost an invisible fence, something that checks our actions and allows us to choose well.
Bavarian breakfast anyone?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,412793,00.html
Some czech restaurants offer a light beer for breakfast with a garlic soup. Delicious.
Kegs & Eggs. :) All I’m sayin.
Two clarifying questions:
What kind of beer? Anything with “Lite” in the title is not acceptable, and it has nothing to do with the time of day.
And is the beer actually in the cereal or on the side?
I prefer “mint juleps” for “tea time.”
The phrase “Christian drinkers defending themselves” is the pivotal dynamic, it seems.
Why are they defending themselves? Defending themselves against whom?
Are they being made to feel they have to explain themselves? Why?
Would these same folks feel defensive about thinking it’s cute when toddlers use profanity? (yesterday)
I don’t think the presence or absence of the alcohol is the issue here, but the apparent presence of some unspoken pressure to explain themselves. Sounds like either a guilty conscience or legalistic friends.
Not legalistic friends, but a legalistic tendency started primarily with the temperance movement which made all alcoholic consumption a sin and insists that when Jesus made wine at the wedding or drank wine at the passover it was just grape juice or something to that effect. It is not defense as much as correction of a wrong headed and un-biblical teaching.
Yes.
An answer otherwise probably has more to do with culture than Christianity. As do many of the rules people set for themselves.
It’s more than acceptable in Australia. It’s expected. Which means that if you’re “contextualising” in Australia you almost have to drink beer.
Christian drinkers? I,ve never heard this before.I didn’t know there were categories for different kinds of christians.But yes and yes
it sounded like you are trying to negate their argument or defense because they wouldn’t do the same at breakfast. Seems like a genetic fallacy. Not doing one does not make the other wrong
It’s five o clock somewhere!
It is playing with fire! I choose not to drink any alcohol at all. I am thankful that I am dry since Dec 1998. People can get hook badly and not knowing that.
If I want a fine drink that taste like wine, then I would get non-alcohol wine. Not easy to find but better than nothing. (I am not talking about that Sparkling Welch Red Grape Juice in wine looking bottle.) Dublin does make both alcohol and non-alcohol. It is pricy though. I haven’t done that for a long time since I am flat broke.
No beer for breakfast for me. I don’t like the taste of beer comparing to wine.
I rather eat His Word for Breakfast and drink His Living Water. No beer for me.
Hungry to eat His Word,
‘Guerite ~ BoldLion
Is this the longest post ever? Or am I imagining it is? Carissa…beer with breakfast is altogether the correct usage there, unless of course you are carb loading before a big run, and beer for breakfast would be the way to go. I prefer Champagne with breakfast..and I would do that every day if I could. P.S. I’m French.
Something else I have noticed is that Christians defending their drinking will often say something like, “I drink it for the taste”, as if that’s the only godly motive for drinking.
However, my husband and I don’t have a problem with saying we like the way alcohol helps us to relax, as well as the taste.
(Mind you, it’s still really important to know your limits. For example, I can’t have much more than half a glass.)
My anecdote isn’t on the topic of beer for breakfast, but still fits the question of freedom being just another form of legalism: I taught a book study at a church that was very anti-legalistic about everything. Many in the church had been hurt by Christian legalism in the past. So it was incredibly ironic when I was told that the book we were studying (by a well-respected Christian author/pastor) would never be used at that church again because it caused one of the group members to struggle with legalism.
Legalism is a coping strategy we use to make ourselves acceptable by some standard and a tool we use to make ourselves feel safe. The obvious problem with that approach is that only Jesus’ blood can make us acceptable and our goal in the Lord in not to be safe but to be loving.
When confronted with the person struggling with legalism as a result of the book we were studying, my church responded in fear and retreated to “safety”. I wish they had instead attacked the legalism head on, named it for what it was, and walked their “weaker brother” into the Light of true freedom in Christ. The reality is that God may have been using that struggle to convict the brother of an area of personal gluttony in his life, but running from the question just tuned out God’s voice. His message may have been one of conviction, or it may have been one of blessing and freedom. Either way, it was between the believer and the Lord, and instead of facilitating God’s work, the church shut it down.
I think Paul said it best: Everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial. So, go ahead and have a beer with breakfast, it’s permissable. Just remember to ask the Lord is it’s beneficial!
Wine with supper. Beer for breakfast. Heroin for lunch. All the same thing.
I have had beer with breakfast (I’m also a college student) but I also have breakfast at any time of the day. Can I have wine instead with my omelet? Which also happens to be a perfectly good dinner choice. What about mimosas? Just because the alcohol is more expensive doesn’t make it more acceptable.
I ask, where is the heart in the matter. I’m still saved no matter what time of the day I drink. The question is am I using alcohol to replace my savior?