Dec 7, 2009
If you think God is all that matters, you can’t love people or honor God.
God’s story includes essential roles besides God’s.
He’s not honored as the main character when we act like he’s the only character.
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Theme based on Derek Punsalan's Grid Focus.
A further thought for the mix:
God is not just a character in the story.
He’s also the Author of the story.
Reminds me of a song by Steven Curtis Chapman, called “Big Story”, God is indeed the Author of the Story, the Biggest Story ever told, we need to find our place in the story…
I hear the rumors of another world
Like distant voices in the wind
They say there is a story being told
Bigger than I can comprehend
And in the rumors I can hear an invitation calling
[Chorus:]
This is the, the big story
There is a God who’s in control
Telling the , the big story
And He wants us to know
We will find ourselves
When we loose ourselves
In the bigger story
Come and take your place in the story
We all live in this place called the here and now
We see what’s right before our eyes
But right here right now heaven’s coming down
All around God’s story is coming alive
And in this moment if we listen
We can hear Him calling
Captivating, fascinating, all consuming
Never concluding
One and only
Ever unfolding
Story of stories
The big, big story
Abraham,
Can you share with us where we can see the quote in a larger context?
I’ve never seen it in context, just on twitter a few dozen times.
Seek ye first, but not only?
Exactly. That’s what the verse says, isn’t it?
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
The right way to seek “all these things” is to seek God foremostly.
(foremostly, ha! That was a fun one to write.)
Dork!
(Coming from a guy who found it fun to read)
But then if you’re pursuing God “foremostly” to get “all these things” then is it really seeking God “foremostly” at all?
No-one is 100% altruistic. But it’s usually apparent the folks who prioritize seeking God *before* “these things.”
Abe –
You write “God’s story includes ESSENTIAL roles played by others.” Essential? That word makes it sound like God NEEDS others. If He needs it…then He is lacking soemthing.
That makes me uncomfortable.
Brian
But Christ came “in the fullness of time” (Gal 4:4), during a time when it was ESSENTIAL that He come. This doesn’t imply a lack on God’s part, but that He orders things in such a way that the MEANS are necessarily dependent on OTHER MEANS in order to achieve the ULTIMATE END.
God aims to glorify Himself. But He has done it in such a way that relies on things like preachers. Paul’s answer to “How shall they hear without a preacher?” isn’t “God saves and doesn’t NEED preachers, because that would imply God NEEDING preachers.”
Lee (below) brings up a good way to phrase it. We don’t want to put God in a position of being ultimately dependent upon anything, otherwise He is not free and cannot be in the heavens doing whatever He pleases.
At the same time, you can so try to exalt that doctrine that you start talking in terms that make the MEANS He has ordained to accomplish His ends as UNNECESSARY.
God has no needs, but He has ordained His ENDS to come about by certain, specific, and unchangeable MEANS, without which His ends will not be accomplished.
It looks like the argument is “only vs. foremost.” Are they interchangeable? I would think so. Usually they should not be interchangeable but in this case it seems appropriate.
I share in Brian’s discomfort. The original post is a quote, right?
No, it’s not a quote. At least not that I know of. :)
Technically it’s a quote and deserves one of those fancy…
-Abraham Piper
Attributions
Yes, above all else, but not ONLY. But actually, once you truly do start seeking Him foremostly, won’t you naturally begin to see others as you should? I once tried to ignore my husband and say “it’ll just be me and Jesus.” Funny thing, once I started to focus on Jesus, my husband couldn’t be ignored anymore.
Perhaps essential should be understood in light of God’s revealed purposes …
An example: the church SHOULD be considered essential in the sense that God chose before time to make his manifold wisdom known through her (Eph. 3: 10) but SHOULD NOT be considered essential in the sense God would be less than God if the church did not exist.
Thought?
It seems the body of Christ would simply be a head without the redeemed. Though we do well when we remember the head directs the body.
Lee’s comments get at what seems to be the right balance: the body is essential because God means for it to be so, not because He needs it to be so.
Abraham I think your Twitter post said it best, oversimplified. Yes, the statement is true, but is not the only part of the story. Throughout history by leaving things out/neglecting them people have created or pu in to motion some interesting sects of Christianity.
Another example of this would be, “All you should be concerned about is God and other people,” and base it on Jesus affirming that the whole law is summed in loving God and loving other people.
This COULD imply that my interests don’t matter. But Paul in Philippians 2 says that each one MUST look not ONLY to his OWN INTERESTS, but also to the interests of others.
This doesn’t mean that our own interests are completely set aside, but that we must BROADEN our interests so that it’s not all about us at the expense of others.
To be generous toward Washer, he is probably speaking from an ultimate perspective, and by “God saves you BY himself” (the point of discomfort, right, Abraham?), he likely means that God doesn’t save you on the basis of your works or efforts. I mean, Washer preaches and views preaching as very important.
But I know that sometimes we who love God’s sovereignty can so emphasize it that we make God into the ONLY character, rather than the MAIN one. I like how Abraham phrases it in his second sentence of the original post.
Honestly, I don’t see what all the fuss is about… The statement that he made is essentially true isn’t it? I think the quote shows forth the impending wrath of God on us and His gracious work of saving us from it as well as Him doing it for His own glory. All good, praise God.
Remember what Christ did on the cross. First and foremost, he saved his people to himself. But there in lies a secondary keyword: people. Not only are we reconciled to God but we are also reconciled to each other.
“Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God…” 1 John 4:7
Only because of the love of God for us, so too are we to love others.
“If our theology promotes man and not God, then our children will never look outside of man for their salvation” Dr. Kenneth Talbot
That was in a lecture I heard this morning….Dr. Talbot said it better than I could have, but that’s why I’m God-centered and that’s why I think God is God-centered.
If the people that Christ died to save aren’t important, then His death for their salvation is unimportant, and if that were true, He would not be glorified in death at all, as His death would have been for an unimportant cause.
Refreshing. Thanks brother.
This post makes me think of the many times I’ve felt guilty for not *feeling* correct theology.
For instance, sometimes, when I’m trying to tell my Dad what’s going on in my life, he jumps in with the theological pep talk, usually asking first, “Who’s in control?”
I am incredibly grateful to have the sovereignty of God in all things ingrained into my being, but…
I just think that sometimes, people rush others into theological correctness without allowing for real human emotion.
Yes, God is in control. In fact, in his sovereignty, he did such-and-such…and it was and is an awfully painful experience. And there are realities of pain, frustration, confusion, etc to work and talk through…not MERELY God’s glorious plan, but short-term REAL yuckiness.
I love correct theology. But your comments are going to make me think twice about how I share it with my kids one day.
Truth is beautiful, but truth in love is glorious.
Thanks.
Chris… this is my first time on this blog and was just scrolling thru… I was thinking what you wrote as I finished reading jennapants post. Thanks!
Grace and Peace!
It makes me sad that sometimes people feel that they need to make a theology that is nice and neat and has no holes… it makes me wonder if that’s really what living a life of faith is about… I think we miss so much of life when we focus solely on the rules and the regulations.
Jennapants I think your right and I will say that theology starts to get more difficult when you are faced with real life.
I personally really enjoy this statement but i feel that it is also not well defined. I like it because there is a bit of an edge to it. Its almost a slap in the face. It kinda gets you going on the inside.
Because being so focused on god tends to be viewed as a good thing I think we need to define the statement a bit better specifically the “all that matters” part.I think we can look at this part in two different ways. one way is in a healthy way and the other an unhealthy way.
“If you think God is all that matters, you can’t love people or honor God.” if we look at this as being someone who is a healthy christian, someone who is fervently fallowing the faith, then i would say that this is a fallacious statement.
But if we are taking about someone who’s an unhealthy christian i can see them getting caught up being so focused on God that they miss other important things like giving grace and mercy to others.
But i think the statement is true assuming the person is fallowing god in an unhealthy way. Being so focused on god that you miss the people who are suffering around you is not only horrible but also not what god and christianity is about.
But I think if we are really honest with ourselves we would agree that we all have done what this statement says. if we’ve ever been so worried about the lens at which we look at the bible through that we chose not to act because it was a theological gray area then we’ve done what this statement says which is been so focused (in an unhealthy way) on “god” that we cant love others.
You cannot really love people until you love God first, and in reality God has to first love you before you will love Him.
God should be everything to you…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J471VobaZks