Dec 10, 2009
Of course wind makes cold seem colder, but the windchill factor is still ridiculous.
[C]reating a formula that quantifies a “feeling” illustrates the dressing-up of science for a goal which is unsuitable for it.
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I thought we already debated this and decided windchill *was* helpful.
Just like here we have a heat index.
You believe what you want to believe, Josh.
I’ll pray for you to accept the Truth.
http://twentytwowords.com/2009/08/15/what-would-we-call-the-stat-that-is-to-time-what-windchill-is-to-temperature/
It definitely adds a dramatic flourish to tell people in less-cold climates that it was such- and-such windchill.
On a side note,I’m grateful that two years ago someone pointed out to me that it’s not “windshield factor”, but “windchill factor.”
I’m glad I’m not the only one who knows about the “windshield factor.” I think my family down south call it that.
Making this observation is just plain mean, I think. :-)
I was wondering if anyone would notice. :)
What you mean to say is: quit whining.
I’m going to be Molly and refuse to high-five you right now.
Meanie.
E.E. your tweets about BALMY thanksgiving days kill me. i might have to unfollow you for the winter. we only use the word “balmy” in MN in reference to 25 degree weather…after it’s been below zero for a few weeks. and I’m not talkin’ windchill.
I disagree at least in the sense the windchill speaks not just of how cold it “feels” but of how much faster the cold will affect a person. As someone who loves to do stuff outside in the winter, I find knowing that is very helpful.
The further you get away from ideal thermal conditions for human comfort, the more useful heat index and wind chill are as a metric for gauging discomfort or danger posed by the conditions. There’s nothing ridiculous about it. Temperature isn’t what will give you chattering teethc, frostbite, or hypothermia; heat loss will.
Wind doesn’t just make it “feel” chillier, if you define chill as the loss of thermal energy. It really does remove heat more quickly, and so you enter a hypothermic state faster, just as you would if your wife were to dump a bucket of salted ice water upon your head. The water might even be “warmer” than the temperature outside your Minneapolis home this morning, but I doubt you’ll notice.
Windchill attempts to take into account the wind speed to give people a sense of how cold it really will feel outside. As such, it needs to be presented not as an actual temperature but as a number that’s really only valuable in a comparative sense. That is, -50 windchill is colder than -30, but it’s not really like a 20 degree temperature difference. I can make my own judgment that -50 is too cold to go outside, but -20 is ok. In that sense it is valuable but if you try to use those values scientifically, good luck.
Your right, it’d be a lot better to come up with a “feeling” scale, like “slap to the face cold”, “punched in the gut chilly”, and “cranial caning bitter”. If only the English department controlled the weather…
I’ll give this one away to you A-man, but how about a “snot-freeze factor.” Being from Wisconsin and you from Minnesota, we know exactly what I’m proposing.
We call them “mustache-crystals”.
You probably hate Celsius too.
We should just throw out thermal conductivity as well. The bathmat and the bathroom floor are the same temperature! Who cares that one feels colder than the other?! I’ll tell you who cares: women, that’s who.
The way I see it you can either choose to try and understand how women feel or you can dismiss it. Both will leave you frustrated; but the latter will leave you sleeping on the couch.
What were we talking about again?
yeah. women DO care about thermal conductivity. after many complaints from a certain personpants, my husband bought a heated toilet seat. butt (heh) it was returned. it wasn’t cordless. scary.
that said, this leads me to wonder: “What’s the ‘toilet seat index’?”
http://www.amazon.com/KOHLER-K-4649-7-Heated-French-Toilet/dp/B0014YJHN2/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1260476276&sr=8-15
p.s. AP, you gotta teach me how to link a word. that looks ridiculous…in addition to being a link to a heated toilet seat.
My Christmas wishlist is now complete…
I hope this shows up correctly:
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VICTORY!!!
I think your critique is more against what is called “real feel” today, which seems to be utter nonsense. But as some commenters have said above, windchill can be quite helpful.
For instance, schools would be in session at 10 degrees, but close for the day if the windchill was negative twenty (yet still ten degrees). The kids will be fine outside or waiting for the bus at 10 degress no wind, but the “chill factor” really does make a difference.
I don’t really care what a thermometer says, I care whether my skin will feel like a frozen knife is slicing it up if I go outside without a parka on. Windchill gives me a better idea of the answer.
But this is coming from a lifetime ‘sotan, so I definitely have preconceived notions.
Tying into what Andy wrote, wind chill has a very good scientific basis. The point isn’t to tell you how you should feel, but to relate the dangers of frostbite, etc. The wind has the ability to remove body heat and it’s not incredibly complicated to calculate the effect of wind.
Don’t you think you could, rather easily, measure the difference in how long it takes hot coffee to cool to a specified temperature in a room with no wind compared to how long it would take to cool with a fan blowing on it?
Here is a pretty good explanation of how it works (pg 112 and 113).
href=”http://books.google.com/books?id=KI9iPMsTy2AC&lpg=PA112&ots=-yzDaD95jt&dq=heat%20transfer%20boundary%20layer%20wind%20chill&pg=PA113#v=onepage&q=heat%20transfer%20boundary%20layer%20wind%20chill&f=false”
Abraham have you been convinced of the virtue of The Windchill Factor yet, or should we keep trying? :)
Bah!
As I remember it, windchill is the rate at which heat will be lost from unprotected skin. In that regard, it is a very real way to measure the danger of being outside under-dressed or without hat, gloves, etc. On a personal note, I was a Mpls Tribune carrier delivering papers on foot one morning when the air temp was -34! Fortunately that day there was very little wind! Gotta love Mpls!
Bah! Who needs temperature scales to know it’s cold, or for that matter, math, or numbers? Or even any words beyond 22?
Why tell us what the ACTUAL temperature TWC? We only want to know how cold its gonna feel, not whether or not we can freeze some element.
To quote my previous post on windchill: “I believe windchill is a pretty well determined thing. And it makes good sense as it can be determined mathematically and applies to the average person. It also has some bearing on when frostbite occurs, which can be pretty important in the cold.”
Hmm, its not like they took a survey asking people, “”How cold do you feel with the 2 mph wind?”
According Environment Canadas website, “Sensors were fixed to participants’ forehead, cheeks, chin and nose, as well as to the inside of one cheek, to measure skin temperature and heat loss. ‘
It seems to me that windchill is more tangible than temperature alone, because the rate of heat loss is what we experience rather than temperature and wind separately.