Was it a seizure maybe? I’ve never seen anyone have a seizure, but that was definitely my first thought.
And I was kinda surprised how the guy asked for someone to call an ambulance, and then was just like ‘Okay, moving on.’
I agree with Ben. Do you find this girl insincere? Do you presume it was an act? I did not find it difficult-to-watch at all, really. We don’t know what this girl was going through emotionally/spiritually preceding this event. Thoughts?
That’s nothing compared to a conference in Knoxville I was at where a large preacher was shouting “…We must learn to pray with the mind of Christ and it comes only when we humble ourselves before him. It comes only when we are broken.—” and he fell back from the podium, hit the deck, and died on stage of a massive heart attack in front of 14,000 people.
I was at a church service one time when someone collapsed in the aisle the paramedics came with a stretcher, loaded the guy up and hauled him out. The worship leader and pastor never missed a beat. They were the only ones in the building that didnt seem to notice what was happening.
That happened at my old church once – an old lady started having a heart attack or something. Two of the elders carried her out and everyone kept singing… it was weird.
I’ve just been reading the comments, inferring what happened.
I struggle, watching things like this; they make me feel ill. I can’t tell if it’s a scenario where I should watch anyway, even though it’s hard, to face the reality of such events. On the other hand, maybe it’s perfectly fine to abstain.
I guess it’s important to clarify what “things like this” means.
For me, it’s something in her voice/affect/words as she prays. The fact that her prayer seems to be written out. That I don’t hear an ultimate strand of joy/thankfulness in being a daughter of God, and instead sense whiffs of the sorrow that leads to death. Her prayer feels like self-flagellation. (These are things that appear to be the case, and that, if there, make me *sad*.)
In addition to the fact that the fellow on her left/our right is distracted and doesn’t seem to be praying with her. He’s fumbling through papers.
From youtube and its comments it was at “Midwestern State Texas University which, according to the registered campus groups on their website has a ratio of 15 rlgs orgs:8 greek orgs. To compare Wstrn Illinois Uni has 12 rlgs orgs:30 greek orgs.”
Just a caution, the comments on the video on youtube are harder to read than the video is to watch.
My take on it is that she became overwhelmed by her emotions. I think she was sincere in her feeling broken for the lost, nevertheless it doesn’t help the notion that christians are wacko.
It looks to me like she feels she is experiencing a “moving of the Holy Spirit” while she prays. Definitely awkward for non-believers, and anyone who’s not been to charismatic/pentecostal services before. But for me, having grown up pentecostal (I’ve been to Brownsville A/G in Fla, folks…this is nothing by comparison), and being now Sovereign Grace Ministries-ish in my understanding of the way the Holy Spirit works…I don’t know…I’m just skeptical.
It strikes me as doubly awkward that she doesn’t seem to be reading/praying this prayer at Christian college, though, where surely the majority of the folks there are thinking, “What the…?!?!”
I think the weirdest thing is that no one on stage seems even the slightest bit surprised by the fact that she fell over. There’s no look of shock on their faces, no collective gasp from the audience, nothing.
I attend that university and recognize some of the people on stage. This happened quite some time ago – some of the men in the video are quite a bit older.
(The girl’s particular problems aside for a moment).
It is a real shame that we do not esteem public prayer more — and expect more from those asked to pray publicly. Is it merely perfunctory? Is it ceremonial window dressing? Aren’t the expectations higher for the leader of public prayer?
At 2:13 just before he calls on the ambulance you can hear her balling. She’s not passed out nor is she fainted. She’s just really cry’n her eyes out. Whether or not it’s an overreaction it’s hard to tell.
I’m with you Jason. While the video is clearly edited, she seems to follow the biblical model of corporate prayer, (corporate confession, then intercession, then adoration). She is clearly overcome but she seems very genuine to me. I’m much more uncomfortable watching pseudo prayers by people who are clearly lost, than something like this.
I so agree here. We are to think no evil of this girl. She seems very sincere and very emotional. God did make some people that way, however uncomfortable “unemotional” people might be by watching it. Abraham, did you ever answer why this video was so hard to watch? Im very curious and not in a combative way.
This reminds me of things I’ve seen from the apostolic/prophetic movement crowd (John Crowder; Ben Dunn) (youtube those guys and you’ll find more hard to watch clips)
I’m reminded of the Scripture that tells us that “the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets”
There were churches in the south I had been to not long after I became a believer, where many of their members became overcome like this. I remember one older lady in particular, who after moving from the pew into the aisle, just sat down really fast on the floor and stretched out, seemingly unconscious. ‘Till she reached down and straightened her skirt.
Then I visited some other churches where nothing remotely like that happened.
I bet it’s the doctrinal stand of her church, wherever it may be, that brings that out in her. I don’t know if it’s good or bad. I don’t think much of what I saw in those days was Holy Spirit wrought.
It didn’t “disturb” me, since this behavior is common depending on your church background.
She was repenting before the Lord on behalf of herself and her classmates for various things and in the midst of it got touched by the Holy Spirit.
It might look strange if you’ve not experienced something like this before, either personally or seeing it, but it definitely happens. It doesn’t mean that she couldn’t control herself to some extent(unless she was REALLY getting touched) but she either couldn’t or wouldn’t, or simply got caught up in praying.
My sense is that we feel uncomfortable because, though the girl’s emotion is sincere and affecting and would be appropriate in some contexts, it is not winsome in this circumstance. I would think that it turns off unbelievers to Christians instead of attracting them to God’s people.
Yes, sometimes the Gospel repulses, but our manners and lack of cultural etiquette should not. We can stand for our faith without distancing ourselves from those around us. The goal of being winsome is why Paul says we should become all things to all people and why Peter says we should always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in us.
It was uncomfortable for me to watch because of the setting. What she said and did looked pretty normal for a particular type of charismatic setting that I’ve seen. Uncontrollable shaking? Inability to stand? Sure. But a secular college graduation isn’t that setting. I wouldn’t expect Joe Not-A-Charismatic who’s there matriculating (or watching a family member do so) to know what the hell’s going on with her, other than thinking poorly of her.
It was a little funny, though, to watch the professor/administrator guy to the right visibly fidget when she started repenting of worshiping our minds and intellectualism.
I hope that her heart was in the right place and that Jesus uses whatever happened there to his glory.
Reminds me of my High school graduation at a public school where a student in our class got up for a prayer and gave an altar call. Can’t pray at graduations anymore after a nice lawsuit.
…aaaaaaaaand down she goes.
I don’t get it.is she super sincere or kinda crazy?
Yes.
Wow.
spiritual attack?
Wow. Speechless.
Was it a seizure maybe? I’ve never seen anyone have a seizure, but that was definitely my first thought.
And I was kinda surprised how the guy asked for someone to call an ambulance, and then was just like ‘Okay, moving on.’
I was kinda surprised how the guy asked for someone to call an ambulance, and then was just like ‘Okay, moving on.’
Seriously.
yeah..i’m sorry…but that was just funny.
sorry…
I’ve never seen anything like that in my life.
I’m not even sure what is happening here. At first she seems to be getting emotional. Been there, done that. Then it seems to take a turn and . . .
So what made it difficult to watch? I am keen to hear your thoughts on it Abraham.
I agree with Ben. Do you find this girl insincere? Do you presume it was an act? I did not find it difficult-to-watch at all, really. We don’t know what this girl was going through emotionally/spiritually preceding this event. Thoughts?
That’s nothing compared to a conference in Knoxville I was at where a large preacher was shouting “…We must learn to pray with the mind of Christ and it comes only when we humble ourselves before him. It comes only when we are broken.—” and he fell back from the podium, hit the deck, and died on stage of a massive heart attack in front of 14,000 people.
That is crazier, you’re right, but at least the people at that event were there to see a sermon…
And we weren’t there to see a guy die. ;o)
“And he didn’t mean to.” I know, I know.
Your dad was telling us the other day to keep sermons at weddings to under fifteen minutes. I thought, “I think five minutes is juuust fine.”
Because I agree with the first chapter of Stuff Christians Like, that’s why.
I was as that conference Rob…and thinking the same thing when I saw this video. Powerful for me as a 17-year-old to witness.
(really late reply) I was there too…though because of a no doubt sinful episode of boredom I didn’t look up until the man was on the ground.
What year was that? 95 or 96? That would put me at 16 or 17 as well.
is this at a Christian school? do you think they had some foreknowledge of how she would pray or what she might say (or that she might collapse)?
http://www.mwsu.edu/
I was at a church service one time when someone collapsed in the aisle the paramedics came with a stretcher, loaded the guy up and hauled him out. The worship leader and pastor never missed a beat. They were the only ones in the building that didnt seem to notice what was happening.
that makes me sad.
That happened at my old church once – an old lady started having a heart attack or something. Two of the elders carried her out and everyone kept singing… it was weird.
Maybe we should start a new game show: “Epilepsy or Holy Ghost?”
oh no! i laughed so hard i just snorted!
It’s hard for you to watch, so you post it to mock. Just because you don’t understand it. Nice.
I didn’t mock it; I shared it.
I see no mocking going on.
Me neither.
Mocking? Anyone? *waits patiently*
Nope. No mocking.
Well, Travis’ “Epilepsy or Holy Ghost” suggestion wasn’t exactly edifying, was it? Abraham may not have been mocking, but others are.
I think I’m more confused than anything.
…I don’t know if I can watch all the way through…
I’ve just been reading the comments, inferring what happened.
I struggle, watching things like this; they make me feel ill. I can’t tell if it’s a scenario where I should watch anyway, even though it’s hard, to face the reality of such events. On the other hand, maybe it’s perfectly fine to abstain.
A question for the Holy Spirit.
I guess it’s important to clarify what “things like this” means.
For me, it’s something in her voice/affect/words as she prays. The fact that her prayer seems to be written out. That I don’t hear an ultimate strand of joy/thankfulness in being a daughter of God, and instead sense whiffs of the sorrow that leads to death. Her prayer feels like self-flagellation. (These are things that appear to be the case, and that, if there, make me *sad*.)
In addition to the fact that the fellow on her left/our right is distracted and doesn’t seem to be praying with her. He’s fumbling through papers.
…and that’s all I’ve seen so far.
If she’s okay, it’s fine to mock. I’m guessing she loves Jesus.
WOW!
From youtube and its comments it was at “Midwestern State Texas University which, according to the registered campus groups on their website has a ratio of 15 rlgs orgs:8 greek orgs. To compare Wstrn Illinois Uni has 12 rlgs orgs:30 greek orgs.”
Just a caution, the comments on the video on youtube are harder to read than the video is to watch.
My take on it is that she became overwhelmed by her emotions. I think she was sincere in her feeling broken for the lost, nevertheless it doesn’t help the notion that christians are wacko.
I see no mocking either.
I think i understand why it was so difficult…she falls down and everyone just continues on doing what they were doing…sheesh…
I was ready to give Abraham a hard time about this until she started crying and I became so uncomfortable that I had to stop watching. Yikes.
It looks to me like she feels she is experiencing a “moving of the Holy Spirit” while she prays. Definitely awkward for non-believers, and anyone who’s not been to charismatic/pentecostal services before. But for me, having grown up pentecostal (I’ve been to Brownsville A/G in Fla, folks…this is nothing by comparison), and being now Sovereign Grace Ministries-ish in my understanding of the way the Holy Spirit works…I don’t know…I’m just skeptical.
It strikes me as doubly awkward that she doesn’t seem to be reading/praying this prayer at Christian college, though, where surely the majority of the folks there are thinking, “What the…?!?!”
I think the weirdest thing is that no one on stage seems even the slightest bit surprised by the fact that she fell over. There’s no look of shock on their faces, no collective gasp from the audience, nothing.
Very weird.
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe no one on stage freaked out because they’ve seen her do this before.
I like that at 33 Seconds into the video you can see the guy next to her get visibly uncomfortable and fidgety!
I attend that university and recognize some of the people on stage. This happened quite some time ago – some of the men in the video are quite a bit older.
(The girl’s particular problems aside for a moment).
It is a real shame that we do not esteem public prayer more — and expect more from those asked to pray publicly. Is it merely perfunctory? Is it ceremonial window dressing? Aren’t the expectations higher for the leader of public prayer?
At 2:13 just before he calls on the ambulance you can hear her balling. She’s not passed out nor is she fainted. She’s just really cry’n her eyes out. Whether or not it’s an overreaction it’s hard to tell.
I thought it was kind of powerful. I think it’s OK to mix actual emotions with prayer.
I’ll also add that just because it doesn’t follow proper North American evangelical decorum and Roberts rules of order doesn’t mean she’s out of line.
I’m with you Jason. While the video is clearly edited, she seems to follow the biblical model of corporate prayer, (corporate confession, then intercession, then adoration). She is clearly overcome but she seems very genuine to me. I’m much more uncomfortable watching pseudo prayers by people who are clearly lost, than something like this.
I so agree here. We are to think no evil of this girl. She seems very sincere and very emotional. God did make some people that way, however uncomfortable “unemotional” people might be by watching it. Abraham, did you ever answer why this video was so hard to watch? Im very curious and not in a combative way.
This reminds me of things I’ve seen from the apostolic/prophetic movement crowd (John Crowder; Ben Dunn) (youtube those guys and you’ll find more hard to watch clips)
I’m reminded of the Scripture that tells us that “the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets”
There were churches in the south I had been to not long after I became a believer, where many of their members became overcome like this. I remember one older lady in particular, who after moving from the pew into the aisle, just sat down really fast on the floor and stretched out, seemingly unconscious. ‘Till she reached down and straightened her skirt.
Then I visited some other churches where nothing remotely like that happened.
I bet it’s the doctrinal stand of her church, wherever it may be, that brings that out in her. I don’t know if it’s good or bad. I don’t think much of what I saw in those days was Holy Spirit wrought.
It didn’t “disturb” me, since this behavior is common depending on your church background.
She was repenting before the Lord on behalf of herself and her classmates for various things and in the midst of it got touched by the Holy Spirit.
It might look strange if you’ve not experienced something like this before, either personally or seeing it, but it definitely happens. It doesn’t mean that she couldn’t control herself to some extent(unless she was REALLY getting touched) but she either couldn’t or wouldn’t, or simply got caught up in praying.
My sense is that we feel uncomfortable because, though the girl’s emotion is sincere and affecting and would be appropriate in some contexts, it is not winsome in this circumstance. I would think that it turns off unbelievers to Christians instead of attracting them to God’s people.
Yes, sometimes the Gospel repulses, but our manners and lack of cultural etiquette should not. We can stand for our faith without distancing ourselves from those around us. The goal of being winsome is why Paul says we should become all things to all people and why Peter says we should always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in us.
agreed Phoebe. Perfectly stated.
Phoebe, excellent thoughts. You saved me the trouble of trying to say it so succinctly.
Charismatics are nuts.
Very kind, Vico. ;P
It was uncomfortable for me to watch because of the setting. What she said and did looked pretty normal for a particular type of charismatic setting that I’ve seen. Uncontrollable shaking? Inability to stand? Sure. But a secular college graduation isn’t that setting. I wouldn’t expect Joe Not-A-Charismatic who’s there matriculating (or watching a family member do so) to know what the hell’s going on with her, other than thinking poorly of her.
It was a little funny, though, to watch the professor/administrator guy to the right visibly fidget when she started repenting of worshiping our minds and intellectualism.
I hope that her heart was in the right place and that Jesus uses whatever happened there to his glory.
Reminds me of my High school graduation at a public school where a student in our class got up for a prayer and gave an altar call. Can’t pray at graduations anymore after a nice lawsuit.