Sep 15, 2011
8 Amish men jailed for not putting orange safety triangles on their buggies
The news is going around about eight members of an Amish sect in Graves County, Kentucky who are serving several-day sentences for refusing to put reflective orange triangles on their slow-moving vehicles. Their faith apparently denies the display of loud colors.
[Update: They weren't jailed right away. They got jail time because they wouldn't pay the fines that they got first. Sorry for the confusion.]
This is interesting enough…
But what really got me was the accommodation shown them regarding their attire while in jail. Instead of the standard-issue orange uniforms, they’ve been given uniforms that were dyed gray.
If I were in charge of their punishment I’d probably give in to that request too, but from an outside perspective it seems a little too accommodating of their — Let’s be nice. — eccentricity. What do you think?
(via CNN Belief Blog, The Smoking Gun)
* * * * *
At first glance, I thought those were some tall dudes. Then I figured out the numbering system.
Yeah – turns out they’re pretty short, most of them!
Ha! You saved me from making a fool of myself – I only tried to figure out the numbering system after you figured out that it needed figuring out…
Would it be insensitive to suggest they have a look at Revolights? Probably.
So, they are around 1.65 meters tall, is that it?
No, they’re around 65 _inches_ tall of course… Although that happens to be 1.65 meters funnily enough.
Since when do they use the metric system in america, besides in soda & automobiles???
We also use the metric system in the medical field when I come to drugs.
But wouldn’t they be above average height for the most part? 69 inches is 6 feet 5 inches tall. The two shortest are 5’11 inches 180 cm. 5 11 is average in most northern european countries. So, they go from average to pretty tall.
69 inches is 5’9″, not 6’5″…..
ahahah you said 69
I don’t really think so, I mean, it’s just different CLOTHES. It’s not like there are any real special concessions being made. I see of no reason why we can’t help accommodate on some things. Now, if they were baby-rapers or something it might be a little different.
Then why not make accommodations on the reflectors? There is no reason they can’t be reflective white triangles.
Solution: How about a Black or Grey triangle with white reflectors! I will start manufacturing these and sell them to the Amish communities at $15 a pop.
100,000+ Amish buggies = $1,500,000 USD.
Actually there is a very good reason. It is the same reason that we don’t change the color of traffic lights in Amish communities from Red and green to white and purple, for instance. The color is not incidental. The color carries information itself.
You can buy material which looks black in daylight but which is highly reflective at night. If mere reflectivity were the issue, material like this could be go onto the black Amish buggies. But the law does more than place some amount of some kind of reflectivity of some color on the back of the vehicle.
The quite specifically designed triangle-with-border *means* “slow moving vehicle”. The Amish or anyone else can put various sorts of reflective material on their vehicles. It still won’t serve the purpose of the triangles.
When I, as a driver, perhaps come around a turn and am confronted with some random visual thing in the roadway, I have extremely little time in which to react. If it is one of those orange triangles I already have a pretty good idea what I’m dealing with, instantly. If it is some random shape/color/size then my mind has to grapple with that for some short period of time, but meanwhile my car is going 80 feet per second.
Also, in my state, anyway, you can’t have any white lights or refelctors on the back of a vehicle except the backup lights, which again is a rule for a good reason. If I see glowing white then I know that a vehicle is actually coming toward me, making the closing speed between us that much higher. A vehicle going 10 miles per hour the same direction as me shouldn’t “fool” me into thinking it is actually coming at me. I might ditch my car to avoid a collision which could have been avoided just by breaking.
Just some thoughts regarding the whole issue.
Hmmmm. Refusal to comply with state law because of their faith. It seems to me there was this passage I once read in a religious book (the New Testament) that went something like ‘Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar, render unto the Lord what belongs to the Lord’. I’m paraphrasing, of course, because who really memorizes those things? Anyway, the statement was made in reference to taxation. Those who didn’t worship Caesar felt they shouldn’t have to pay the taxes, and my man J. said “Yo holmes – if you live in Caesar’s land, you better pay the tax. No need to call attention and bring all that heat down on yourself. Caesar will get his in the end.”
Basically states obey the law of the land where you live. Right about now I’m getting the impression that the Amish feel they are ‘above the law’. And, while they may all LOOK like Steven Segal, they are NOT Steven Segal.
You have 2 choices. Put the orange triangles on your vehicle that are required by those who MADE THE ROADS, or get the hell off the roads and stick to the dirt-paths you make for yourselves.
Your paraphrase is closer to the mark than your exegesis. (As I recall, it’s “to God” not “unto the Lord”.)
One interpretation might consider that *everything* is God’s, Caesar’s so-called possessions already included.
Be nice they are good people
“… I have extremely little time in which to react.”
And that, of course, is exactly what the Amish have already considered.
This is by far the most thoughtful post on here. Props for thinking through the whole situation rather than having a knee-jerk response on one side or the other.
tl;dr: Yes, properly-colored triangles are needed for safety, not just anything reflective but the specific triangle that is generally agreed upon to mean “slow-moving vehicle.” They standardize that business for a reason, and it works.
I think you said it yourself. It’s the shape (triangle) which gives the information to the other drivers. I would think that as long as it was a triangle and it was relflective at night, then it wouldn’t really matter what color it was. I would think that the other motorists on the road would get the idea.
First of all why are you traveling at 55mph around a curve in Amish country. Second of all last time i checked stationary objects on the side of the road such as guard rails on the right side (the same side of you that the buggy would be as you passed it) are marked with white reflectors. If you really are traveling at 55 mph around a curve the buggy would seem like a stationary object so the white would work in this case. Further more if you have to “ditch [your] car to avoid a collision” with a vehicle going in reverse chances are you are going to fast for that road considering the majority of the driving population does not go in reverse on a road that the speed limit is 55mph at night. Just saying, if you want to make a scenario you should really think about the scenario you’re make and make sure it is a logical situation and doesn’t make you sound like a reckless driver that deserves to have to “ditch [his] car”.
Also, this country was founded on the idea of religious freedom; In prison, Muslims are given prayer rugs, Christians – bibles, Jews – Old Testaments and yarmulkes, why wouldn’t the Amish be deprived of plain clothing.
[There is also a few grammatical errors in my first post: comma after "first of all" and end that statement with a question mark, comma after "second of all," capitalize "i," comma after "side of the road" and "you passed it)," comma after "curve," furthermore is one word and should have a comma following it, and "you're" should be "you" or "make" be "making." Wanted to correct that so people don't criticize the piss poor grammar of that]
All of the Amish buggies in Lancaster county Pa. have the colorful triangles on them. The bishops
decide what they can and can’t do, all the way to the types of shoes they wear. I’m sure that one of
these men is a bishop. I come from Amish heritage, (way back). You do nothing without the
bishops consent.
Because the lack of reflectors directly affects public safety while the clothing does not?
I believe the clothing should not have been changed either. I work in a prison. In a glance I can tell an inmate is an inmate because they’re wearing blue. If inmates there normally wear orange and these amish inmates are wearing grey it could slow reaction time of the officers. Odds are that nothing will happen in the couple of days they’re in there… but still… from my point of view it’s safer to have all inmates in the same color.
You *do realize this is a joke, right? They were arrested, true – but it had nothing to do with triangles and buggies.
@AlwaysMe -Amish are human and have just as many whackjobs (possibly more per capita) as English.
These men were arrested for hate crimes against other Amish. IMO, suitable punishment would be an eye for an eye – or a shave and a haircut, given the circumstances.
Disregard – wrong photo. My bad.
Interesting that they were accommodating to their preferred colors in prison when they are in prison for not placing a brightly colored triangle on their buggies. Also, it should be punishment enough that they took their mug shots since Amish don’t allow their pictures to be taken for religious reasons.
I was just thinking the same thing, how horrible for them to have to have their picture taken when their religion doesn’t brelieve in pictures.
“I was just thinking the same thing, how horrible for them to have to have their picture taken when their religion doesn’t brelieve in pictures.”‘
Oh these poor people have to have their pictures taken,…. How horrible?? How horrible would it be if a minivan carrying a baby and family came around a corner and was caught off guard by an unmarked buggy and had an accident? It is pretty ridiculous that they dont have the common sense to realize that its not a damn bumper sticker and the orange color serves a specific purpose of SAFETY for people on the road. If they want to have use of public roads they need to abide by public rules.The world does not revolve around the amish religion.
I don’t think they’re in prison. Looks like booking to me. In my experience, you don’t get a jumpsuit during that process yet.
In your experience…..
ah this made me laugh
Yeah that would be another violation of their rights. Taking their picture that is.
No, it’s a violation of their faith, not their rights.
Americans don’t get the right to break the law nor pervert the process of that law. That would be stupid. There are plenty of religions that call for men to beat women. It’s not violating someone’s ‘right to practice their faith’ when you put a violent criminal in jail.
I want the government to be accommodating to my eccentricities, so I’m fine them doing this for the Amish.
I’m glad you were nice, Abraham.
I think if your faith says that you are not aloud to display “loud colors” then you have bigger problems than several days in jail.
I’m not sure, but the guy in the far top right looks really sorry for what he did. “Free the Amish!”
On a page of stupid comments pissing me off, this one is a beacon! Thank you for your humor!
Am I the only one who thinks that putting them in jail was a bit over the top? Certainly there are better things to spend tax dollars on.
I, for one, feel safer knowing these hardened criminals are behind bars. They probably even sell raw milk, the monsters. I think Child Protective Services should step in, otherwise their kids might grow up to operate lemonade stands.
Thank you for the gigglesnort!
I disagree, think about how much tax dollars are spent when someone rear ends one of these all black carriages at night because they couldn’t see the guy on account he didn’t have a $2.00 high visibility SMV sign on the back of his buggy.
yeah, right. because if you’re driving at an average speed in the middle of the night and their buggies are so black you can’t see them, the triangle is going to make a huge difference…
Yes, it does make a huge difference. Have you ever had to drive through an Amish community late at night? You would be surprised at how many buggies are on the roads at time and the triangle makes the difference of seeing them or not most of the time. However, I do not agree with putting them in jail. After all, the courts make deals with REAL criminals everyday.
Do you drive with your headlights off? By your argument, we should also be locking up deer, skunks, opossums, and raccoons. I’ve driven a lot on country roads at night and still never hit these animals that are going much slower than a buggy. But, then again, I drive the suggested speed limit for these roads at night, which is usually around 55, and slows down for turns.
I’m not trying to defend the accused in this situation, but rather think that maybe irresponsible drivers of motor vehicles should take some of the blame. Bad drivers are the worst.
A few years ago PA made it mandatory for buggies to have blinkers after a family in a buggy got wiped out at 3:00AM: they were driving on the highway with no blinking lights or reflectors when they got hit by an 18 wheeler going 60mph.
So yeah, they can be very hard to see, and when an accident does occur, someone usually gets killed.
Their religious freedom ends where my right not to die because they won’t use safety equipment begins.
not taking any respect out of freedoms,,, but if the roads had no rules thought out for decades,,, then we would all be subject to a lot more hazards,,, anyone here ever drive in vancouver down mount seymore in the winter rainy season, flash flood,,,no turn offs,,, truck behind you,,,,, no lights on something in front of you? good luck,,, even at 20-30 km,,,, hope you eat more karrots than bugs bunny if u rely on your sight skills only,, make your own trail then amish,,, or abide by minimum saftey rules, arent roads that are paved technology? ,, change the laws for u????? ok i dont like green traffic lights,,, i want mine blue cuz green lights are like devil lasers to my eyes in my religion,,, ranting? yes,,, im in the field of public saftey and out of respect for the dead,,, will not give any examples,,
I could be wrong, but I thought the Amish were normally in bed by dark and up by day break?
you are mistaken – you are thinking Little House on the Prairie
You forget to multiply the amount of tax-dollars by the expected rate at which such accidents can occur.
At a guess, I’d say the US has bigger financial worries at the moment.
I’m with you, Thor!
I hate it when an outsider (us) drives very close by their buggy then they blow the horn just to see if the horse will spook!
I agree with you. It’s a bit over the top. And there are better things to spend money on. It must have been a slow crime day in Kentucky.
it seems drastic,,, but give an inch,,,,, whats next,,,, a saftey rule is there for everyone,,, its not a personal freedom,,, dont use our high tech road then,,, built for high tech vehicles,,,how about i steal a candy bar from your store and dont pay the fine???
I live in the 2nd largest Amish community in the US. I have to share roads with Amish buggies. MANY buggies don’t have the proper reflective triangles and/or lighting on their rigs to help us see them at night and in bad weather. You may think it’s no big deal, but I’ve seen the nasty buggy accidents. It IS a big deal – it puts lives at risk. And don’t even get me started about the dang buggies that don’t use their turn signals…
I’m with you Thor!
I’m with you Thor! I wonder if this is really a hazard and if so, how many accidents have occured from this type of traffic violation? Plus, were any such accidents actually caused by auto drivers who were unable to see well or even speeding? Just saying…I need some facts!
The guy on the top right has definitely been to jail before. Witness protection?
Jail for no Orange triangle?? Seriously?! Can we get those officers and laws out here in Cali where child beaters and drug peddlers walk our streets freely and laugh in the faces of our goverment?
Hmmm why is this a problem? I don’t know maybe a large slow moving heavy dark color vehicle on the road might be, how do you say, hard to see during the not so bright times of day. Call me crazy but if they want to use the roads they have to submit to society a little bit.
There have been wrecks and children killed because the buggies can’t be seen at night. The orange triangles are an attempt to accommodate both the need to not have light on the buggies and to protect people, most Amish communities use them, but some do not.
As for the jumpsuits, this question falls under the same as every other religious protection for prisoners. Basically, prisoners get to exercise their 1st Amendment religious rights as long as it doesn’t interfere with safety and security. So Muslims get to pray 5 times a day at the appropriate time, observant Jews don’t have to eat pork, Christians get access to a Bible, and, apparently, Amish don’t have to wear orange. Although prison uniforms at a lot of places are this blue color as a standard.
case law,,,, one of the beauties of the system,,,,gotta be addressed,,, no fine paid,do the time,,,
*Government – whoops
Rebel scum.
At last, have we come to the place in our society where we jail people for not putting triangles on their buggies!
And it all started when we agreed to use helmets and wear seat bealts.
I believe in accommodating religious beliefs where possible, but not displaying a yellow triangle on their buggies is endangering their lives and lives of others on the roads. No one’s religious beliefs surpass my safety nor the safety of my passsengers. As for jail, think that is a little over the top for the offense….maybe ‘tow in’ buggies out of compliance???
Disagree, Terri. There are road signs all through Amish country warning of buggies. The ones who endager lives are the ones who drive like maniacs and are too stupid to notice a freakin HORSE DRAWN BUGGY in front of them and slow the hell down!!!
And the jail sentence is BEYOND retarded. But then .. it’s Kentucky …
Amen Stella. Amen.
Agreed, Terri! Except for maybe the Kentucky cut ;)
whoops! I meant Stella!!
Stella’s got this one down. I completely agree. Again, minus the Kentucky cut. I’ve never been there.
Reflective..
you know, so they are easier to see AT NIGHT. It’s easy to see a buggy during the day, but a DARK BLACK buggy is a bit hard to see at night without REFLECTIVE warning signs.
I agree with Terri. A signs warning of buggies nearby is not sufficient if you can’t see the *actual* buggy in poor light. I live in PA and see horse-drawn buggies all the time, and they have the reflectors on them. They are especially important living in a mountainous area where the roads are curvy. If there is no reflector, I won’t see the buggy, and that is dangerous. For them and for me. (Also, the article said they were NOT jailed for failing to use the reflectors but for failing to pay the fine.)
Hmmm… it doesn’t say they didn’t have anything reflective… it says they didn’t have orange triangles. Maybe they were not aware there are other options.
I’m proud to be from Kentucky since the anti-KY poster (i.e., Stella) misspelled several words, used improper punctuation, and used “retarded” in a derogatory manner. At least I know she’s not from the commonwealth! :-)
Way to represent all the fine folks in KY.
As someone else said: “Loathers shall loathe.”
So maybe you should read the article?
Via points out that the Swartzentruber Amish use a high-quality reflective tape on their buggies, along with lanterns and red reflector lights. They are trying to comply with the law, Via said, without violating their religious beliefs.
They are trying to be safe, just not posting a sign on their buggies that is sacrilegious in their eyes. SO what’s the problem here?
I feel the same way about ANY time a religious belief infringes upon something health/safety related. Like people refusing to immunize or receive medical treatment for diseases they’ll end up coughing on somebody else on the street. Every religion has plenty of these types of eccentricities, not just these minority ones either.
It’s a crime anytime someone’s choice to entertain ANY religions eccentricities (even the ones in mainstream Christianity) end up imposing themselves on members of the public in a way which could potentially endanger lives.
Keep locking them up I say. Religion is a personal choice. The law is not.
And it will be a personal choice to take the mark of the beast or to refuse to take the mark.
The Amish are usually very careful and keep to the side of the road. You’d have to be blind not to see their buggies. I don’t think they were endangering anybody. It’s ridiculous to jail someone for not displaying an orange triangle. Stupid!
“Usually” is fine. Road crashes are unusual moments. And car/buggy crashes do occaisionally happen. In my area there seems to be full compliance with the traingle law (which applies to far more non-Amish than Amish vehicles, by the way) and accidents are rare.
I have a question for you.
First some background:
The law calls for fining, and jailing if the fine is not paid. These guys have already made clear that they won’t pay the fine. In your mind, jailing them is out of the question. So if you have your way we can pretty
Here is my question:
When some law-abiding driver rear-ends an un-triangled buggy and a full, steel can of delicious and healthy raw milk comes through a windshield and takes your kids face off, who are you going to sue?
Because I really think you’re gonna say: “Law, schmaw. If that Amish dude didn’t want to obey traffic safety law that’s up to him and tough luck for my permanently disfigured kid.”
“I don’t think they were endangering anybody.”
You don’t THINK they were endangering anybody. Meanwhile the fact is they were. Try googling “Amish buggy traffic accident statistics”. Forgive me for deciding to go with “hard facts” over “what Gladys thinks” when evaluating public policy.
“You’d have to be blind not to see their buggies.”
Hmm. Black buggies. On black pavement. In the middle of the night. Yeah, you’d have to be TOTALLY blind not to see that. In other news, cars never get into accidents with each other due to visibility, because you’d have to be BLIND not to see another CAR, amiright??
Which one is Bilbo?
Dude this is messed up! Our jails are overcrowded already with real criminals without having to lock up honest-good people in there. If you gotta punish slap them with a fine and move on. This is such a waste! A good example of what happens when the practice of the law conflicts with the purpose of the law.
well observed JumpingJoy.
the banking system bends you over and over and over, then has you pay THEM (in ways of our taxes bailing them out) and this is what’s important to some Americans? How about the criminals at Lehman?, Merryl Lynch? Any of them in jail yet?
This is Kentucky, not New York City, LA, or even Durham, NC.
Or in other words, we should let them go with a slap on the wrist? You forgot the part up there that said they didn’t pay their previous fine which is why they are in jail.
Why can’t they make the reflector white? That would serve the same purpose and not go against their beliefs.
Because if you made it white you’d be making concessions. If every minority religious group was allowed to make similar concessions to the law then the law would eventually break down, since there are so many religions out there with plenty of crazy old rules which some small proportion of followers still adheres to.
It’s a question of where you draw the line, and when it comes to issues of safety, the line should be quite rigid.
To address your particular comment, I could imagine that white would be a bad color purely because the reason the “safety” colour is such a bright orange is that there’s usually nothing much else out there in the world colored that way. There’s plenty of white things on the street already. Start changing the colour away from “ugly orange” and you’re suddenly not standing out quite so much, and the effectiveness of the sign diminishes quickly…
I always hear of accommodations made for Jews. Kosher meals, no Christmas decorations, etc. So 1 accommodation made to the Amish is no big deal.
A bit of difference between supplying kosher meals and allowing people to defy safety regulations, don’t you think?
Yeah, dammit! Like tax exemptions (501c3), tax write-offs, tax credits, welfare programs, pacifistic religions and the military, affirmative action, Native American casinos and reservations, profiling and national security laws, FEMA programs, the American Disabilities Act, the Matthew Shepard Act, blah blah blah.
No way these ass-hole Amish dudes are getting away without a proper sign.
A few of these guys look like street toughs in Amish disguise.
Funny thing about their rights and why they didn’t request them; How Sad. All Amish are true sovereigns of the United States (they don’t have social security numbers).
Technically speaking, unless it can be proven that they “did harm” not “could do harm” to another sovereign (American Citizen), they then as true sovereigns of the Unites States can not be prosecuted.
That includes a dumb ass sign and the fees. They should have written an I Owe You to the court system. Being that we have no debtors prisons what next?
They are true free citizens of the United States.
That police department should be ashamed of themselves.
J
Wow Joshua! I don’t know what a true free sovereign of the United States is, but I want to be one when I grow up!
Then if a “sovereign” drives drunk on public roads, as long as he doesn’t actually maim or kill another “sovereign”, technically he can’t be prosecuted?
“Sovereignty”: glibertarian-speak for “entitled anti-social narcissism”.
It is actually much simpler than it seems.
As sovereign, no one has more ore less authority than each other. This is the premise of what the United States was trying to accomplish. No man, king, or queen is more or less powerful. Thus the revolution from the British empire *including the bank of England (there was never supposed to be a federal bank – they just now call it the “Federal Reserve” but it has nothing to do with the Government at all.
The only way to find fault with a sovereign is if you can prove in a court of law that he or she has done you harm.
If applied to an individual driving drunk. The question is; Can you as a citizen prove that they did harm to you by driving drunk? Technically the answer is going to be no.
It’s specific application is to give rights to every American status of representation being equal. Being that historically people in England would be judged then sentienced by the order of the king or queen. This meant if a king didn’t like you he could judge you then, hand you a sentence – what ever they desired. You could do nothing. Because you had less rights than they did.
That being said, obviously there are concerns when applied in a modern society. That I will agree.
That being also said, they are concerns (drinking and driving) and who are you to judge are you my king?
I like puns.
J
A few Amish might choose not to get social security numbers … but most of them get one these days.
They can’t use loud colors, but they can yield the safety of other drivers’ caution around loud colored signs? I don’t think they should be allowed on the roads honestly.
I mean seriously.. if you see a horse and buggy in the road.. do you REALLY need an orange triangle on it to figure out you should slow down and be cautious?
It’s night time. There are no street-lights. It’s raining. Their cart is black.
Your eyes might be good, but there are plenty of people whose eyes or reflexes aren’t as good as yours.
You could use the same argument to explain why people should never ever have car accidents to begin with, or accidentally hit cyclists at night who don’t have lights on their bikes, or for that matter, why even cars have lights/reflectors on them to begin with.
Visibility on the roads is crucial, even if it feels like overkill. Wait til somebody close to you dies on the road for a visibility reason and see if you feel the same way…
Doesn’t bother me if they want to go without the reflector, just as long as they stay off of public highways. If you’re going to use public infrastructure, you have to abide by the rules of that infrastructure’s use. And if you’re going to have a rule about that infrastructure’s use, you’ve got to enforce it. I don’t know why this makes anyone upset. If there are more important things for our law enforcement to be doing, then change the law. This just isn’t a law that should be changed.
So are there minimum speed limits on your “public highways”? If there aren’t, what is the problem? I believe they pay taxes and have the right to vote, just like every other American, and have the right to use the roads as much as farmers with tractors, people on horses or bicycles or motorcycles Earth-destroying SUVs.
Leave them alone, I say. But I am Canadian. We see things differently.
Legal lights and reflectors are required on bicycles. Can someone tell me how this is any different?
Of course they have the right to use roads, as long as they follow the rules of the road. These guys didn’t.
It’s different because their religious beliefs trump the reflector law.
If their religious beliefs say they can’t follow safety laws that are a condition of road use, then their religious beliefs should tell them to stay off the road. Problem solved. No need to trump anything. It’s just like the Quakers: Their religious beliefs say they can’t shoot at people, so they follow their religious beliefs by not applying for jobs that would require them to shoot at people (i.e. soldiers, police, etc.). They don’t volunteer for armed service and then whine about getting in trouble for not following the rules thereof.
Where I live, the Amish communities have all decided that safety is a valid exception to the bright-colors rule, because the whole point of the rule was to prevent the sin of vanity and there’s nothing vain about a standardized safety sign, and so Amish around here all post the standard regulation orange triangles on the front and back of their buggies.
Non-Amish farmers are subject to the same laws as the Amish. They put the orange triangles on the back of each tractor and trailor they use on the roads.
I live on the border and have a lot of Canadian friends. If yopu believe all Canadians think alike, you need to met some more Canadians.
“So are there minimum speed limits on your “public highways”? If there aren’t, what is the problem?”
Actually, yes there are. The minimum speed varies by state but it is almost always faster than a buggy moves, and vehicles moving slower are still allowed to use the road but are required to post a standardized orange triangle on their vehicle. Farmers do it for their tractors, semi trucks dragging mobile homes do it, it’s just what you do here.
Didn’t they get the memo?
Home of the brave,land of the free was sold off a long time ago.
This is the new Amerika,one where you have no freedoms,rights or anything.
Just do as your told and STFU or else okay!
After all the moozlims terrorists hate our freedoms……………Wake up America and smell the coffee FFS!
Didn’t they realise that freedom is the right to watch celebrity come dancing and eat fatty foods until you die of type two diabetes.
Thats the real Amerika.
I hope that star has power.
I look for Amerika as often as I can.
SoMitBe
So in your Dream America you have the right to pull a huge, black wooden and steel box along the darkened roadways at five miles per hour and everyone has the right to smash into it, kill your kids inside the box and kill their own kids in their car?
Sounds like an interesting place, this America of yours.
So, the first thing you should know about Amish people is that they are not of uniform belief. They have (for lack of a better word) different sects which have slight to moderate variations on their beliefs. I am not a religious scholar, and so I can only speak from first hand experience, but here are some examples: Amish communities in PA are generally more moderate, and will allow orange triangles on their buggies, whereas the Amish communities I have spent time with in upstate NY will allow any orange triangles, but instead generally place a candle inside of a red jar, and hang that from their buggy.
This is sort of the tip of the ice berg, and there are many many of these types of differences. Another one I always found interesting is the use of buttons or latches (some find the former too modern), and some Amish won’t let rubber-tired (tyred?) vehicles drive on their property. Also, many Amish are famed for their “Rum Springa” right of passages for their young adults. In the communities I was around, I never heard any mention of this.
In short, there are quite a number of interesting differences between different communities. It seems that this community was a bit more conservative.
My second point is that I wish people would spend 1 hour dealing with the workings of a misdemeanor criminal court before informing everyone of how they work. I for one am often in court, and without reading the complaint or subsequent paperwork, my best guess is that they refused or were unable to pay fines, and so were jailed temporarily (in the court I work at, I believe the standard is $50 credit for each day served). This is a fairly typical method for municipalities to “collect” the money they are owed because of criminal sanction. Whether this is a good idea or not is another story. To me, the sort of interesting topics that spin out of this discussion or freedom of religion issues. For instance, they may be required to wear special clothes during their time in jail (generally prison is a term reserved for state prison. In California, a prison is where you go if you have a sentence longer than one year.)
That being said, I am sure these issues have long since been resolved (at least on the federal level), but I don’t know them off the top of my head.
and I feel bad for #2, who can’t seem to get the Amish Flip going with his hair. I bet he has trouble getting girls because of that.
Too right.
Not conforming to social norms should be punishable by death.
Not tweeting,eating processed foods,cheating on your wife/husband,living in debt and dying at 40 is just plain weird.
Deer are hard to see at night too, are we going to jail them for not having reflective lights. They cause more accidents than horse and buggies. This is seriously stupid. It is control and that is annoying.
I think that’s a great idea!
Stupid religion, still causing more problems than it ever solved.
Dumb rule. Let the guys go. They have no electricity in their homes give em a break.
This ruling i stupid, however they should have been jailed for those hair cuts.
I think those beards are a little too loud
Those are not uniforms in the pics. That is their own clothing.
If they were uniforms they would all be the same. I’ll also bet they didn’t spend even one night in jail.
Yes, this is over the top. The government is going after the Amish for many reasons, not just orange signs….their form of agriculture, raw milk, eggs, canning and food preservation. You can bet that they do not use Monsanto seeds. This is going to get worse and worse.
Conspiracy theorist much?
Unfortunately, It’s not conspiracy theory, it’s true. There have been several accounts recently of Amish farmers being raided by police for having raw milk on the premises. Big ag sees the rise in popularity of organic and raw, and fights back.
There is no law against having raw milk, but it is a problem when they sell it. Raw milk is a major source of E. coli O157:H7 and Brucella infections… in fact, there was an E coli O157:H7 outbreak associated with a farm selling raw milk this year in Minnesota. Again, this is an issue of protecting safety. Before pasteurization of milk become routine in the US, milk was a significant public health concern.
True..they are busting their doors down aiming machine guns at their heads for not pasteurizing milk…break the will of the people…Down America goes….
I hope all involved in this disturbing tale of horrific behavior to these good Amish men, are rolling around in their beds right now, trying to sleep, with the image of the sexy beards of a thousand Amish men rubbing all over their bodies……
The police should be ashamed of themselves, and shunned from their families and friends!
I think they should have been given decent haircuts while in jail. The haircuts they have should be criminalized!
I never thought I’d see the day; The Amish telling the man to shove it. Why are non Amish Americans letting the Amish to fight their battles for them?
Are they so thick they cant see the thinly veiled attempt to start with shutting down the Amish life and style/beliefs first before setting their sights on everyone else?
In case it hasnt dawned on you Americans; you have the very means right at your disposal to thwart evil government; it’s called your constitution!!
A piece of protection the rest of the world only wish they had in our countries.
They should never be put in jail for such a ridiculous ‘infringment’, when are we going to wake up and get our sovereign dignity back. You can say that the US and western countries are a democracy. Petty BS like this is designed to demonstrate power over us.
Guy on the top right. Is it just me?
…. http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRM40dKF5nauiUVvJEwkEY8QvAvZuQ1bVU7MtBcEeL1Mala5R66WQiHoMD-
It is not. You are absolutely correct. I’m thinking he might have been the original model.
Free Exercise Clause 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..
I think they should have little lanterns hanging from their buggies with candles like the olden days!
LOL! The good ole USA, where freedom is freedumb!!!
This story makes me want to go out and punch a neo-liberal and a neo-con in the face! Both are destroying our country!
Judging by those faces, the irony of digital photography for the mugshots is not lost on them. :)
Reading the comments of the brilliant masses, I’m starting to think the eugenicists might be right.
I’m not going to sacrifice, and won’t encourage anyone else to sacrifice anything for the retarded trash in Amerika who don’t even understand what freedom is, much less want it. They don’t want it. I will not impose freedom on them. Get your shots, use lots of fluoride, and eat all your GMO food.
The sooner your shriveled brain, 90 IQ, white trash, public school and television educated family tree dies, the sooner the renaissance can commence.
This I find sad….I recently had a Amish man do some work on a property I have in the mountains…What a great pleasant wonderful person..
We could all learn something from these caring gentle people….
LEAVE THE AMISH ALONE…….. DAMN IT!!!!!
Just for reference. I remember that only a few days ago (maybe about one or two weeks ago) one of these Amish carriages with some kids (~10yrs) was hit and these kids died. Seems a good reason to have this triangle. It’s similar as the obligation to wear a seat belt. That has notihing to do if these people are nice of not. Society is changeing, rules are changeing resulting in the fact that people (including the Amish) HAVE to change. And hiding behind expression of religion I find a gotspe (for any religion).
If I have a headlight out on my car I might get a ticket and, most likely, just a “fix-it” ticket. Never went to jail over that.
Also, 8 in one day???
Looks like a major sting operation…They were probably trying to bust them for raw milk and, to save face, had to find something to arrest them for to justify (who knows how much $?) they allocated for the anti-milk operation.
One thing does seem out-of-place though. Haven’t the Amish always been following these practices? Why now, suddenly, do they get busted? Are these rogue Amish terrorists?
DOWN WITH THE AMISH TERROR CELLS! They might pitchfork us to death!!!
So funny, I hope their not too shocked in jail!!! I wonder if they’ll start promoting omish self defense classes or ju-jitsu, or who’s maybe even MMA after this. I’d love to see one of them go UFC!
Um. This isn’t accommodating their “eccentricities”. This is their religion, which in the United States people are given the right to practice as they choose. These are religious practices not eccentricities, and they should be accommodated.
And, if we’re going to punish the Amish for this, then we should punish the religions that believe in “faith healing” and use it (yes, the Amish believe in this, but they do at least eventually take their children to a medical doctor if the situation gets bad) to the point of allowing children to die from very curable conditions that could easily be treated by doctors. This seems like a more pressing issue than either the triangle or the fines for it.
I am a total heathen, but out of respect for another’s faith I wouldn’t call their attire an “eccentricity” any more than I would say that about a Catholic’s rosary beads or a Jew’s yarmulke. It’s an important part of their creed.
+1
This is not a case of public safety but of domination. Reasonable men could adapt the rules to accommodate their religious principles – such as substituting lanterns or other acceptable compromises.
But unreasoning tyrants demand obedience to their rules, regardless.
SHAME on the government of Graves County, Kentucky.
SHAME on the people that submit to tyranny.
Yeah, reducing vehicle accidents is so tyrranical. SHAME on the DMV! Down with Driver’s Licences!
They were find and ultimately jailed for not displaying ‘loud colours’, and yet an exception was made for their uniforms. Could there not have been an effective, alternative safety measure to the orange warning signs?
Astonishingly entertaining cheers, I’m sure your current followers could perhaps want further items similar to this continue the good content.
Look at freedom of speech and religion. They were willing to use a reflective tape across their buggies just not a orange triangle. These men are from the oldest amish in the country. And the picture is a big one if they were ___they wouldn’t have had or wanted to have their picture taken. When did man’s law become higher than God’s law???
If my interpretation of God’s law says I should kill you is you eat shrimp (as it indeed says in the Bible) are you cool with the state respecting my religious rights by letting me stab in the heart everyone walking out of the local Red Lobster franchise?
The orange triangle with its characteristic border *means* slow moving vehicle. Just like the red octagon *means* stop. Shape and color are both crucial parts of how the message is sent that you as a driver are quickly closing on a slow moving vehicle travelling the same direction that you are. No combination of random reflective tape conveys the same information. This is information which can save Amish as well as “English” (that’s what they call us) lives.
These guys are not just endangering their lives and those of their children. They are endangering the lives of anyone on the public roadways.
Your right to abide by some arcane interpretation of your religion (which most Amish do not agree with, by the way) does not extend to you killing my kids by slowly dragging huge, heavy, unmarked black boxes along unlit roadways day and night.
If some non-Amish idiot killed your family this way, and said that his preacher told him it was ok, how would you respond?
And this is no exageration. For those of us who have to drive on roads shared with Amish it is a matter of lie and death.
Lots of good points, “name required.” But curious – can you cite your claim that the Bible states we should kill those who eat shrimp? I’m aware of some of the distinctions between “clean” and “unclean” animals, but maybe not aware of all the consequences of eating an unclean animal.
When did man’s law become higher than God’s law???
When we realized that God was just a story told to grownups to make them behave in a certain way and that he was no more real than Santa Claus.
TUMNUS!
It’s the same guy arrested 8 times
What bothers me is that these pictures taken at some police station
appears in public on the internet. its disgusting.
It’s public info – you can get anyone’s mug shot
Well, I don’t know about “those involved”, but I’m sure not going to sleep well tonight thanks to you.
will they get a licence suspension?
I say we just let ‘em set up some casinos to fund their ‘no reflector’ fines.
The Kentucky Constitution requires that accommodations be made. This will take some creative thought, but it is not impossible to do.
Kentucky Constitution
Section 1:
All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned: …Second: The right of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences. Third: The right of seeking and pursuing their safety and happiness. Fourth: The right of freely communicating their thoughts and opinions….
Section 2: …Absolute and arbitrary power over the lives, liberty and property of freemen exists nowhere in a republic, not even in the largest majority.
Section 5: …Right of religious freedom. No preference shall ever be given by law to any religious sect, society or denomination; nor to any particular creed, mode of worship or system of ecclesiastical polity; nor shall any person be compelled to attend any place of worship, to contribute to the erection or maintenance of any such place, or to the salary or support of any minister of religion; nor shall any man be compelled to send his child to any school to which he may be conscientiously opposed; and the civil rights, privileges or capacities of no person shall be taken away, or in anywise diminished or enlarged, on account of his belief or disbelief of any religious tenet, dogma or teaching. No human authority shall, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience.
I thought there were only seven Dwarfs? WTH?
These are the ones I remember but I’ve never seen the last dwarf
Top Row Left to right
1. Doc 2. Dopey 3. Sleepy 4. Grumpy
Bottom Row
5. Bashful 6. Happy 7. Sneezy 8. ?? * ??
The triangles are for safety. I guess the Amish are against being safe. America is sooooo accommodating for all faiths, beliefs, etc. How about THEY make an accommodation to just.put.the.darn.thing.on.the.cart!!!! It doesn’t make you FLASHY it makes you SAFE. holymoly people.
If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn’t be any religious people.
“I was just thinking the same thing, how horrible for them to have to have their picture taken when their religion doesn’t brelieve in pictures.”‘
Oh these poor people have to have their pictures taken,…. How horrible?? How horrible would it be if a minivan carrying a baby and family came around a corner and was caught off guard by an unmarked buggy and had an accident? It is pretty ridiculous that they dont have the common sense to realize that its not a damn bumper sticker and the orange color serves a specific purpose of SAFETY for people on the road. If they want to have use of public roads they need to abide by public rules.The world does not revolve around the amish religion.
Actually, I’m pretty sure they don’t go out much at night. The amish don’t use electricity, thus, no headlights. If you can’t see a horse and buggy in time to slow down during the day you’re probably driving too fast.
I grew up near an Amish community (Arthur/Arcola, IL area), and I’ve never heard any of them who had a problem with the orange reflector signs. And there are a lot of buggy/car accidents (even with the triangles). They do go out at night, and on rural roads with abrupt turns, steep hills and very few markings, they are very hard to see. I think each Amish community has their own interpretations of things, too, because I’ve seen things done in one that aren’t allowed in another.
Wow so many responses. I just wanted to chime in and say in case you havent noticed, that these guys all look scary and very very much alike. Imbreeding maybe?
I think they should be jailed just for bad hair…..
Snow White bailed them out.
Only a post involving arrested Amish people would there be so many replies. :)
One thing you did not point out is that it is part of there belief not to photographed also. Its to bad we haft to ram rod things down there throat but it for the safety of everyone envolved. Wish them god blessing but I think they are wrong in this case.