Jan 5, 2012
From Noah’s Dad…
(via The Daily What)
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Category: Cute, z - Business & Marketing
He is so cute, I like this idea a lot.
Yes! Let’s show real kids! If only we saw the same in ads directed at teen girls!
“Yes! Let’s show real kids!”
WTH? Just because he has down syndrome that means all the children in ads are NOT real kids? OMG please.
False dichotomy fail.
Love to see people actually call out the fallacies like that. Respect.
I’m sure all Melanie meant was that she likes to see a wider range of people, people who may be considered flawed, represented in the media.
All clothes washed with Downy detergent.
Soooo wrong, yet I laughed. Damn you!
I love this ad idea, for one, he’s adorable, and two I agree with Melanie. Let’s show real kids having fun, and not disparaging children with disabilities as being ‘not normal’ or unwanted.
I also agree with the thought for tween and teen adds
I am 14, and I am not particularly well-disposed towards kids with Down’s. I attended a musical theatre program, and my group contained a girl with this disorder. She couldn’t sing because of the disorder, and she couldn’t dance. I would not have found fault with this if it wasn’t for the fact that she beat me and a lot of other far more competant actors out and got the LEAD ROLE simply because she had Down Syndrome. It really bugged me, especially because I am a two-time All State singer and an experienced actress. I should have gotten that role (or maybe not even me, one of the other girls who was just as good as me). I hate the way people pander to these children.
And I hate the fact that unconsiously fell this way. If we could include these children and make them ordinary it might not just help normal kids, but kids who have this issue by giving them self-esteem. Acceptance might make these kids want to become better and not let them be satisfied with the idea “I have this problem and I’ll never be normal”. It could lead to a lot of people having better lives.
Maybe I exaggerate, but being used to people like this would have made me a little more accepting. I still would have been ticked off at what happened at my camp, but I wouldn’t subconsciously hate them the way I’m sad to admit I do. This is a good idea.
Wow. You are very brave for coming forward with these sentiments, and very mature for stating them intelligently the way you have rather than ranting. It’s hard to wrap my mind around the fact that you’re only 14 years old. More than that, you have shown the ability to see things from multiple perspectives and that just… staggers me. You’ve put thought into this instead of just brooding about it, and that makes you able to share a bigger picture that rings true on many levels. You are looking at the world in a way that many adults are never capable of!
Two-time All State singer and acting abilities aside, you should take pride in yourself for your complex mind and objectivity. It’s rare; exceptionally so in kids your age. I bet your family is proud of you.
I think you do get it, intellectually.
Keep in mind, although you and your talented peers will have other roles, other opportunities, the student with down syndrome might have had the chance to feel good about doing something that other kids do and have an opportunity that was given to be once in a lifetime. You don’t understand how much any kind of condition can segregate a child and keep them from even having friends and experiencing the small joys that you might take for granted. Have you ever had a birthday party where no other kids showed up? I’m sorry that your experience made you feel angry. Your director probably saw an opportunity to do something good, and may have changed a child’s life. Please don’t let it change yours for the worse.
I’m glad I went back and re-read your comment and saw that you’re 14. I had written a pretty heated reply, but you’re young and obviously haven’t had the pleasure of getting to know a human being with Downs.
Persons with Downs generally do not consider themselves to have a disability. They lack the capacity to fully understand their condition, though they do generally know there is a difference between themselves and others. I’m sure your comment was well-intentioned, but suggesting that persons with Downs be included and treated ordinarily is impossible. In some less severe cases persons with Downs are able to live relatively “normal” lives, but it is rare, and they certainly cannot perform competitively in areas, such as singing and acting, that require higher levels of skill.
As far as “pandering,” persons with Downs aren’t often presented with opportunities to do the things you and and I enjoy and take for granted. Your abilities to sing and act I’m sure required a lot of practice and time, but these children, once out of school, will live the rest of their relatively short lives at home with their parents. If you are serious about singing and acting, you can go to college or move to L.A. to pursue it. Persons with Downs can’t. Middle School and high school give these persons an opportunity that will end the day they graduate. The irony, of course, is that persons with Downs would never ask to be pandered to. I would challenge you to spend some time with them because they are the most gentle and kind people on the planet. Growing up I spent a lot of time with people with special needs, and I have come to the conclusion that they are less defective than us “normal people.” If we could live with the grace and gentility of persons with Downs, we would certainly be better off.
Allie, I hope this experience opens up your eyes to the world around you. I have a son with autism and when I was your age I worked with children with disabilities. These kids don’t have the friends or relationships that you probably take for granted. It isn’t until you loose something that it’s worth becomes apparent. People pander to them because they need to. They can not advocate for themselves. I have been a major advocate of inclusion since I was 14. If typical kids like you don’t get exposure at a younger age the “difference” is too big of a bridge to gap. I wish you the best of luck with your singing and acting, but I wish a heart of compassion even more.
It sounds as though you have been graced with some incredible God-given talents. It is good thing to be able to use those talents to give your Creator glory and thanks for them. I can understand the disappointments of life. My youngest child has severe disabilities. He will always require full-time care. He is in a wheelchair and has a feeding tube. There is great pain seeing him “less than perfect.” But we don’t look to what he can do in this life, but instead, we look to our Heavenly Father to do for him what he can’t–that is to comfort him, provide for him, to give him a hope and a future. I would encourage you to check out John Knight’s blog, theworksofgod.com. Even admist your own disappointment and suffering, it may help you to understand disability and suffering on a different level. Grace to you….
It was pretty much unnecessary for you to state that you’re 14, as it was very obvious from what you said that you’re still a child. The fact that you state that you’re a two time all state singer shows that you’ve had plenty of opportunities to be in the spotlight. It appears to be that this was some kind of summer camp, so I don’t understand at all why you couldn’t be fine with stepping out of the center of attention for a second to let someone else have the opportunity to be the star. Do you think she gets that chance a lot, like you do? This may have been the highlight of her childhood, but you, quite a bit of time later, are still not only hateful towards her, but anyone who happens to have the same disability.
It’s so sad to me that you are not only unwilling to step down to help out someone else, but you’re judging an entire group of people by an experience with one.
That is kind of what I was trying to say about myself. I feel awful for feeling this way, I really do. You have no idea how bad I feel for saying something like this. But it’s true; this is the way I feel. Believe me, if I could change my own opinion I would. I just don’t know how. I feel terrible for thinking this and even worse for allowing it to control some of my actions. I just–and I will admit it–am not mature enough to really know what to think or do. I’m not really hateful towards her, just kind of sore and a little offended. It’s awful of me, I know. It’s just frustrating to have this kind of opportunity taken from you, even when you’ve had others like it.
I guess I should restate this whole thing: I’m glad that the camp included this girl, but it really bugs me that they had to do it while I was there. I know that’s terrible of me, as I’ve previously said, but I feel bad about it. Don’t get me wrong. I really do try not to be rude, or a bigot, but it’s hard when my subconscious tells me that it’s not fair for one person with a disability to be put above twenty without.
“I feel awful for feeling this way, I really do. You have no idea how bad I feel for saying something like this. But it’s true; this is the way I feel. Believe me, if I could change my own opinion I would. I just don’t know how.”
Really? Is that really how you feel? Then I think you should look into some volunteer work in your community working with people with developmental disabilities. The best scenario would be any kind of special needs theatre company, but really, any work with people your age with special needs would help. And no matter where you are, there will be at least one program of this kind that could use your help.
If you really feel bad about feeling this way, if you really want to change your attitude, this is what I would recommend. But if you take my advice, do it with this perspective: you aren’t there to help them as much as they will help and educate you.
Uhhh, I’m probably wrong but you may have Aspergers Syndrome. I do too, and I can relate to your remarkably mature thoughts at your age as well as your apathy towards the child. Like I said, I’m most likely wrong but do look it up.
Allie, I had a teacher tell me once that I had Aspergers because I’m mature for my age (I was 12 at the time, 22 now) and I definitely don’t and didn’t. So maybe I’m a little touchy about people randomly diagnosing Aspergers all over the place like it’s candy, but please don’t believe that you have it just because you’re mature for your age. That doesn’t make you automatically have a “syndrome.”
Also, I don’t think you have apathy toward the child with Downs, I think you had a bad experience and you’re brave for coming out and saying that you have negative thoughts. Too many people bottle it up and then feel bad about it, but it worms its way out out in unconscious ways, and that’s damaging for everyone.
Just be aware that you have that feeling (which it sounds like you obviously do0 and try not to let it affect your opinion of other people with Downs. I guarantee you everyone has some sort of opinion like that, but it’s how we fight against it that makes us closer to being a unified and equal society.
If it means anything, I think you’re a very cool 14-year-old. :)
I don’t think you need your attitude to change- I think your teacher should have had their attitude changed and some of these other people commenting are getting their panties in a bunch because they have a ‘special’ kid or whatever and cannot empathise with your thoughts. A child with a disability should never be picked for a role just because they have a disability- surely that goes against the whole point in equality?! They just want to be treated normally so by giving them an acting or singing role that they cannot do well just because they have Down’s is pointless & wrong.
Good for you for being so honest and articulate. :)
Oh jeez, I almost forgot how much of a jerk I used to be… >..<
He is so cute! I absolutely love this. My daughter is friends with typical kids and kids with developmental disabilities and mental retardation. She also has both girls’ shirts from the target ad lol
It’s very subtle. I like how he’s posed with the rest of the kids, the ad isn’t trying to bring attention to the boy. It’s more or less an ad that screams, “Here’s a bunch of kids wearing our clothes.” I think it’s clever and a great idea.
I think these ads are wonderful! So great
I think it’s especially good for kids to be introduced to differences and encouraged to ask questions at home instead of never seeing anyone different until they’re older. Showing all kinds of kids, with differences like wearing glasses, having missing limbs, being in a wheelchair, and what is shown here, cuts down on “Mommy, what’s wrong with that kid!” being shouted in public, and it cuts way down on prejudice among children and adults.
Maybe I’m Debbie Downer but it seems like amazing marketing strategy to me. Everyone loves Target even more now!
It IS nice to see kids who are “different” being included and accepted in this way (even though, as Ashley said in an above post, it’s probably just a very, very clever marketing ploy). Now if they’d just stop stereotyping kids’ clothes and toys as “boys” (i.e., adventure toys, everything blue or at least not pastel) and “girls” (kitchen/household chore toys, nasty pastels, and that vile pink!) life would be much better for the kids who don’t like and don’t fit into those roles that society forces on them. Maybe someday……
Are you suggesting kids need to be androgynous? God forbid a boy like “adventure toys,” whatever the hell those are. If you’re saying we shouldn’t frown upon boys wearing pink mini-skirts or girls hunting elk, but should frown upon boys wearing blue shirts, don’t you see you’re doing the same thing just from another angle?
I don’t think the point is to have kids be “androgynous” as you like to say but more to show them how they normally are. As a daycare teacher, I’ve seen girls play with trucks and boys play with dolls and dress up. I doubt these actions will ever be portrayed in an ad but people that work with children know they don’t recognize gender until they are older and it’s parents and teachers that dictate what’s for “boys” and whats for “girls”.
Got it, but androgyny is the blurring of the line between masculinity and femininity, which is basically exactly what you described. There are toys, there are dresses, and they are everyone’s.
But it still doesn’t answer why current gender roles are wrong, as M.W. suggested they were.
By the way, stop letting boys play with dolls. Those are for girls.
G. I. Joe? Lego men? Knights? Dolls are so much fun!
Those aren’t dolls, Caleb, those are educational tools to teach boys how to become awesome. DON’T TWIST MY WORDS, CALEB!
But it’s so fun being a troll!
I hate dolls. They bother me so much that it isn’t even funny. My parents stopped buying them for me when they found five-year-old me sitting on the floor in a pile of headless Barbies. The heads were hanging from the ceiling.
What’s wrong with girls hunting elk? I have enjoyed many a fine game roast and steak as a direct result of my (female) cousin’s hunting abilities (she likes pink camouflage though).
We live in a society where women doing manly things has become widely accepted. I don’t necessarily think it is morally unacceptable for a girl to hunt elk, rather it is simply not a feminine act. It’s suitable to teach young girls to be feminine. And I doubt your cousin is 3 years old.
I am also not saying that hyper-femininity is good. Wearing a dress and make-up is very different from a nose job or breast implants.
My only point is that the gender roles we have created/genetically inherited are ok and good.
Then I have no way of having a discussion with you because saying that only the normal gender roles are ok is so far beyond closed minded that I don’t know what to say. And no, boys play with dolls, not action figures DOLLS. And it is a good thing to see them nurturing and taking care of the babies, isn’t that what a father is supposed to do? But I guess not where you live in 1950.
Marci, I never said “that only the normal gender roles are ok.” I only said that they are ok. Read over everything again.
And you still haven’t answered the question, you just called me closed minded and a time traveller.
How does time affect the way we understand gender roles? Is how you understand them not how it should have been understood before? If you are correct in your understanding now, does that mean they were wrong back then, or that they were correct, but that time makes them wrong? I’ve never understood the time argument, because it isn’t an argument.
The doll comment was a joke. Marci, you’re on the internet. Take a chill pill, dude. Or dudette. Or human that has not disclosed, nor would like to disclose, their sex.
BOO-YAH BIOTCH! LMAO
Marci, I agree totally! I know that my generation has more fathers that show and tell their children how much they love them than older generations and I believe that is because it slowly became more and more acceptable for little boys to play with and take care of their dolls… Anyone remember “My Buddy”? That was my male cousins favorite toy as a child and he is now a terrific father and has no problem wrapping his son in a bear hug and saying ‘I love you’ at any given moment…something my siblings, cousins, and I never got from our older generation fathers!
I absolutely love this ad. What a wonderful caring person their ad exec must be. Never have I seen clothing ads with real…….real kids. Good for them. I just might go buy some kids clothes from their now.
What a handsome little man! I hope he has been getting more print work
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